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To Geld Or Not To Geld. That is the question

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 2 » To Geld Or Not To Geld. That is the question « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Vanessa Pierce
Breeding Stock
Username: Starr

Post Number: 127
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey everyone. Joker is now 4 months old and everyone who has seen him in person had told me to keep him as a stud and stud him out. How do you really know you have a really good looking colt and decide to keep him a stud? What do you look for? I have been around studs and have handled them so I know what to expect. I have just never been around a stud prospect and dont know what to look for. Here are recent pictures. The first two are from today. Not very good when I didnt have someone halter and hold him still but you get a good look at him. Thanks for your help.

[IMG]http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww113/tpmining/9-3-092.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww113/tpmining/9-3-093.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww113/tpmining/8-25-097.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww113/tpmining/8-25-098.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww113/tpmining/8-25-099.jpg[/IMG]

Vanessa
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2608
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i personally would not make this decision till he's about 3 yrs old, unless he's got obvious physical or character flaws
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 839
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm personally a huge advocate for gelding. If I were you, I'd geld him. He looks like a nice colt, but there isn't anything about him that screams stallion to me. He'll be much happier as a gelding, and a good stallion, makes a great gelding :-)
 

Vanessa Pierce
Breeding Stock
Username: Starr

Post Number: 128
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana- a lot of people have told me that. In all the years of seeing babys I dont think I have ever seen a stallion prospect until after they were 3 years old.

Gelding would probably be good for him but I was going to send him to a trainer if he was kept a stallion. If he is properly traind he could be happy as well. I can still do things with him either way I go. I might have to be a little tougher if kept a stallion if he tryes to pull any crap. Gelding or not their going to push and push like children to see how far they can go.
He wasnt born with any flaws. I hope he stays that way. He knows we are alpha. He wont try any of his crap with us or with his mama or aunte.
Only time will tell. what I will do but I think your right DIANA. I think I will wait till hes 3 to make that decision.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2611
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just to set the record strait, I too am a huge advocate for gelding... I however do not own this horse, do not know pedigree, bloodlines, etc. Pics don't do alot of horses justice, and I'm not into saying, "Geld that boy b/c he's not perfect"....For all I know, it's someone's dream to breed for a stallion they consider 'perfect' and then one day breed him. And I don't want to step on any toes or hurt anyone's feelings. On the other hand......if you truly feel like (and I quote you)
"I might have to be a little tougher if kept a stallion if he tryes to pull any crap....He wasnt born with any flaws... He knows we are alpha. He wont try any of his crap with us or with his mama or aunte"...perhaps it is a GREAT time to geld.
Owning and handling a stallion is a HUGE responsibility, and a different aspect of handling/training altogether!! Even my stallion (who is 25 inches tall) can be dangerous when handled improperly. Waiting to put him with a trainer until he "starts crap" is going to be your first mistake! If you intend to keep him a stallion, I'd put him with a 'known' stallion handler and let him begin work with him early in life! If you're not really looking forward to paying a handler large lumps of money to train your boy properly from the early basics on, then perhaps he isn't "the one"....?
 

Vanessa Pierce
Breeding Stock
Username: Starr

Post Number: 129
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana- I totally agree with you about gelding every colt. I would like to start a breeding program my self. Yes, I have a trainer who is so excited to work with him. I have never seen a trainer get excited about training horses but he is. My vet also said that if it was his colt he would keep him a stud, the Farrer also said he would keep him a stud and my trainer and his wife also said keep him a stud, along with friends and family. How do you really know he is a stud prospect? His blood line has Snipper Music,Seirra G Son,Music Mount,Hollywood Gold. Thats just dads side. Moms side has a lot of TB. Tripple Deck, Chicks Deck, all the way back to Man O War. I have know Idea if thats a good blood line. We are doing a lot of training here wile he is still on momma than he will be going to the trainers after he is weaned ONLY if he is to become a Stallion. My trainer is also a firm believer of gelding. He has only two stud prospect this year that are sold that he has been working with. One has already left for Germany. The other is waiting for transportation. I want to know, HOW DO YOU KNOW IF A COLT IS A STUD PROSPECT? I havent seen a stud prospect this young of an age only when their older. What do you look for at this age?

Thanks for your help.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2616
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess that would all depend on what YOU"RE looking for for your breeding program. I didn't say anything about "gelding every colt", but I do believe there are far too many stallions of poor quality in this world, and that keeping a horse a stallion is cruel if he's not serving a greater purpose. In my particular breeding scenario, (miniatures)I wanted the tiniest possible stallion to breed my girls to. It wasn't enough for him to be tiny, but he had to be very petite, thin boned, well balanced, proportionate, appaloosa with a homozygous coat pattern, AND have great bloodlines with a greater temperament. He's never been shown, he doesn't have any awards, but he is PERFECT for what I need here. 2010 will be his first foal crop, and if he doesn't pass his characteristics along, he'll soon be a gelding. If he does, he'll be a goldmine! Here's hoping he does, because I have waited for his foals for 2 yrs now, and raised him myself.....I have turned down numerous INSANE offers on him this year, and stand to lose ALOT if he's not what I hope for him to be as a sire.
As I said, I have no idea if your colt is a stud prospect, as I haven't seen him....everybody's opinion is different, and nothing in the pics just screams to me "stud" either....I agree with Samantha on that. But, If he were MINE, and I thought that he might make a good prospect, and so did everyone else who'd seen him, I'd certainly keep him in tact long enough to find out. Here's the thing.....I've had some "ugly ducklings" turn into some of the nicest horses I've ever owned....and it's not altogether uncommon for young horses to be born spectacular, and completely "fall apart" by the time they're yearlings and soon grow into the ugliest horse you've ever seen.
 

Ann
Breeding Stock
Username: Northernperch

Post Number: 104
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 05:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would have a barn full of geldings as opposed to the barn full of pregnant mares that I have!!!! Geldings seem to care about eating, sleeping, eating, sleeping and maybe a ride or two thrown in. They don't seem to hold grudges and are usually love bugs A stallion on the hand..or even a non-pregnant mare....gah. If he were my horse, I'd geld him.
 

Vanessa Pierce
Breeding Stock
Username: Starr

Post Number: 130
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Monday, September 07, 2009 - 01:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So do you think that when he is a yearling he would show me what he is really made of or will it be later? Right know I love his body structure,muscle tone,attitude and his color. His willingness to learn is unbealiveable.

The way I also look at it is if he were to be a stallion he would also eat,sleep, eat, sleep mabye a ride or two but also be bringing in money to pay for his hay and be a love bug. A gelding would do that same thing just not bring in breed fee.

How old is your stallion?
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2620
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, September 07, 2009 - 10:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What does "what he is really made of" mean?
Sounds to me that you're only seeing him as a set of testicles around the place.....very sad.
Here's the bold in your face truth about stallions.....
1)you're not going to get rich owning one, you're going to go broke repairing fences, feeders, walls and trailers b/c of one.
2)If you breed him as a yearling, GOOD LUCK getting any training done on him.
3)Unless he's spent years in the showring winning, building a name for himself, you won't have people knocking down your door to breed to him, and he'll carry a nominal breed fee and you'll be lucky to have just one outside mare for breeding a year. Even luckier if you actually get paid, and don't go to court with said mare owner.
In other words, if he's not really something special (not to you, but to mare owners)it's hard to own a stallion. They need a "herd" to cover, or they are in trouble all the time.....covering one of your mares,and an outside mare each year simply isn't going to be enough to keep him out of trouble without the proper training! If you begin breeding at 1 yr old, proper training has already slid to the wayside...........

(Message edited by kdgilger on September 07, 2009)
 

Lindsey
Yearling
Username: Lindsey6384

Post Number: 89
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Monday, September 07, 2009 - 10:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vanessa I have been told to keep my colt a stud by many as well (new pictures in 2009 foals). He does have very good bloodlines, as well as great color and conformation. His personality is great as well. I could not have asked for more in a foal. However, I have no intention of keeping him a stud. I know, like Diana mentioned, that unless you have made a name for your stud he will not bring money in for you. It is also a full time job to handle, train, breed...etc a stud. I am not a breeding professional, nor do I want to be! I love my boy, but I will love him even more once he is gelded. Just be sure of your reasons on keeping him a stud vs. gelding. I do plan on waiting until this coming spring until Wesley is gelded....although we'll see! LOL Good luck!
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 846
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay.... I feel a need to chime in here. Unless you've got the next GREAT stallion, that is showing and winning in big shows... your not going to make money of the "breed fee". No way, no how. Keep in mind that the average number of breedings a stallion gets per year is 5. That includes the stallions that get 100, and the stallions that get none. You will not make a profit with 1-5 breedings per year, considering the costs of advertisement, training, showing, and correct facilities. I have a licensed, approved stallion... very different than what is available as far as other Welsh stallions. I basically break even with him. I've had good luck selling his foals.


Also, I'm sorry to inform you, that his life will be VERY different as a stallion. He will not be the same animal. YES, there are sweet stallions... and those are the stallions who've had professional handling, and the laws have been laid down right away. I bought a Warmblood colt 3 years ago, really nice. The Breed Inspection judges even said they'd like to see him back as a stallion. I kept him a stallion for a while.. until he was almost three, but he was an average horse. Not bad at all, just not the next superstar. So he got gelded. I have not once regretted the decision, he's so much happier now. Even if a horse has great conformation, movement, and bloodlines, doesn't mean that they can mentally handle being a stallion. My stallion knows the rules. He's not to challenge fences, ever, no exceptions. Even if there's a mare in heat on the other side. He's not to call, except when being bred. His manners are to be exception. And they are, he's the most well behaved animal I own. He lives in with some donkeys and mules, and is as happy as can be. It's truely depressing to me to see stallions that are labeled "crazy beasts", they just need to be handled correctly. Do you have the experiance? The finances to have him professionaly handled and competed? The time? The commitment? The facilities? Owning a stallion is a huge responsability, and liability. I don't know how it is elswere, but stallions must be kept in 6ft or higher fences in my county. That isn't cheap. You really need to think about your horse, and whats best for him. When I bought my stallion, I knew that he was going to live as normal a life as possible, and he does. He only comes into a stall if neccessary, eats with other horses (well, mules and donkeys), trailers with other horses, can stable next to mares no problem. Do you have the ability to provide your horse with as normal a life as possible? There's many decisions when owning a stallion, and my advice would be; if your looking to stand your own stallion, purchase a proven producer with a show record and start from there if you have the proper facilities.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2624
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well said.
 

Vanessa Pierce
Breeding Stock
Username: Starr

Post Number: 131
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 09:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you all for your opinion on this and YES I agree there are way to many stallions out their. I was just asking questions. I dont know yet if he is going to be a stallion. For all I know my husband might decide to geld him in 2 months. Who knows. Yes I have handled stallions on my own. I know what is expected. I used to live on a ranch as a kid and I have always wanted my children to experence what I grew up with and they are excited about all of it. And asking if he will prove to me what he is made of?? What I ment was, Will he show me his ugly duckling side or not till much later? I would NEVER BREED ANY ANIMAL not a cat,dog,rat,bird. NOTHING till at least age 4. My opinion would be if I did that it would be very irresponsable of me. I dont agree with that at all. I would not spend the time or money for a trainer if I was going to breed him as a yearling.
If I did not have the money for a stallion I would not have horses or any other kind of animals. Yes I would love to buy a HOLLYWOOD DUN IT colt to have a stud but I have my own boy who is just as pretty.LOL. He is already bought and paid for.
Dont mean to change the subject but have anyone one of yas ever seen a horse play with a vollyball like a dog and throw it up in the air and roll on the ground??? I wish I had my camera this morning it was at 6am when I saw Joker playing that way. to Funny.
I really do appreaciate everyones help. I am just asking question please dont be mad.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2630
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 11:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nobodys mad , we're just voicing our opinons based on the info given and our own experiences...this board is here to help. I'm glad you wouldn't breed a yearling , i was scared about that! LOL My stallion has a big rubber ball that you can buy at walmart, and he chases around the pasture and plays with it.....what great toys!!!!



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