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Post breeding infection?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 2 » Post breeding infection? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1839
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bonny was covered less than 2 weeks ago. Yesterday I noticed she was leaking some fluid, it is whiteish and odorless.
This afternoon I went to look again and its seems to be worse. Still odorless and whiteish, and not puss looking more like milk. Not thick either, but thin like milk.
I am also not sure if its from her bladder or not.
I started her on some left over Uniprim, 1 scoop a day. I am not sure if it is an infection or not but I want to be sure to catch it quickly if it is.
Also she is eating and drinking fine, acts fine.
I took a pic because sometimes its hard to tell by words.
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp317/ShyBon/bettyaug3009010.jpg

(Message edited by Bonny on August 30, 2009)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2608
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 10:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Be aware that "random" undiagnosed treatment with antibiotics can be a bad thing to do. It may not be the correct antibiotic for the pathogen involved (which can lead to resistant organisms), or it may even be completely inappropriate if the problem is something like a yeast or fungal infection (which would make it worse).

What is does sound like is that she has come back into estrus, and has a purulent discharge from the uterus now that the cervix has relaxed (the cervix relaxes when she comes back into estrus). The fact that the diestrus period was apparently reduced also points to a possible uterine pathogenic presence. I would be sure to have your vet evaluate the mare, and make sure that you reference which stallion she was bred to to your vet, as a purulent discharge such as you are indicating could be indicative of CEM.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2602
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yikes! Please let us know how it turns out holly!
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1840
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thankyou for the information.
I dont think she is back in estrus though. She shows no signs of estrus behavior, unless that is masked by the "infection"?
It was also the first time this stallion has ever covered a mare, if that makes a difference.
However I will contact my vet as I think this may be more serious than I originally thought.
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 537
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Holly: This looks like the same discharge my mom's mare had. When we picked her up from the breeder's barn, the manager told us we may see it...it was due to the high protein she was getting in the alfalfa hay and nothing to worry about....is she getting a high protein diet by chance? Just a thought...Kim
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2605
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

holly, has the vet seen her yet? just wondering how she's doing
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2609
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 01:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim - what was the hypothesis of the breeding manager as to the origin of the discharge? In other words, what was being discharged, and from where?
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 538
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos-it was a white discharge and she said the vet's at Petersen Smith Equine Hospital "told" her that this was common with mares who were fed straight alfalfa (all the can eat) in the big blocks free feeding I guess....it is just a whitish discharge and to not be alarmed if we see it....I even asked my vet about it when she came over in case my mare had the same thing and she said, yes, it is very common here with the mares who are eating alot of protein....guess you've never heard of it? I sure didn't and had no idea....
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2606
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

doesn't sound right to me, I've never heard of a mare having discharge from her vulva from eating too much protein. Seems then, that many rescue mares would do the same when put on high protein diets, but that has never happened here.
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 539
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought it weird too Diana...my vet is coming back out soon for a coggins, so I'm going to ask her to explain better so we will all know...I'm very intrigued now that it's been questioned....it sounded good at the time..ha ha
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1841
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bonny is doing fine, whatever it was the uniprim seems to have done the trick...

Jos, I did read up on the CEM, and I appreciate your bringing it to my attention, however I am still curious, It seems from what I have read that it is a matter that usually clears by itself in X amount of days, although better to treat. And usually the mare will not take that cycle. I read it is usually a STD basically, so with the stallion being "virgin" could he have passed it anyway?
Also I read CEM is very susceptible to most antibiotics.

In Bonnys case I feel it was most likely due to her being kept in the same pen as the stallion and she was covered 'as desired'. Causing her to develop this infection. Which makes me wonder Kim, was your Moms mare allowed to breed at will also?

Bonny should cycle this weekend if she didnt take from the breeding. So I will start teasing her tomorrow to see. Basically this is for my information as to her status as if she returns to heat she wont be re covered at this point.
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 540
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Holly, no, she was bred one time live cover however...hmm....I am going to get a better explanation from my vet next time she is out...I just kind of did the "nod head" thing when they mentioned if we see it, not to worry about it, but no I'm curious as to why it happens and what it is...glad Bonny is doing better :-) Kim
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1842
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Kim, I guess a mare can also get an infection from one time live cover. But I may not have been an infection at all.

Bonny was not fed anything different than her usual feed/hay so I dont think Bonnys issue was protein related.

I sure hope she takes though...
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2611
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe that you will find that the discharge to which P&S are referring is an almost clear (but slightly white) discharge, while the photo suggests more of a cream-like consistency, which is suggestive of purulent material.

It seems from what I have read that it is a matter that usually clears by itself in X amount of days, although better to treat.

Not true. The bacteria can remain in the reproductive tract for years. The discharge (if apparent) may disappear after the end of estrus when the cervix closes down, but is likely to reappear when the cervix relaxes again next estrus.

And usually the mare will not take that cycle.

Again, not necessarily. Infected mares can and do become pregnant, and in fact the pathogen can be passed in utero to the foal who can become a persistent carrier.

I read it is usually a STD basically, so with the stallion being "virgin" could he have passed it anyway?

While it is primarily an STD, there are other methods of transmission, which has been sadly demonstrated in the current outbreak. Transmission manually with contaminated breeding equipment (AV, breeding mount etc.) in the case of a semen evaluation is a possibility had the stallion had a semen evaluation performed for example. Additionally, as noted above, foals born to mares that were infected could be persistent carriers, so even though he had not bred a mare the possibility that he is a carrier of the pathogen is still present.

Take a look at our article about CEM, which may explain a little more for you.

In Bonnys case I feel it was most likely due to her being kept in the same pen as the stallion and she was covered 'as desired'. Causing her to develop this infection.

This may be a cause of an issue in the event of a mare with delayed uterine clearance problems. It also may not be a true infection, but a major inflammatory response.

 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1843
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, Thank you so much for the information!
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1849
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 10:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

4 weeks post breeding, Bonny is fine , whatever was going on is cleared up. No signs of heat so far and she is drying up nicely. Although Tigger is not so happy about that lol.
Heres hoping for a positive pregnancy test!
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2642
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Holly, so glad you got her cleared up!! Are you going to have her ultrasounded? or wait to do a wee foal?
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1850
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well....
The plan was to wait for a wee foal, however, I am still having issues with my one doe(female goat)So I was thinking of sending some blood to bio tracking. They can do both horse and goat pregnancy testing. Getting blood from Bonny is not a problem at all, but getting blood from a goat well thats a whole different story. I may end up just hauling the goat to the vet and Bonny right along with her. Today I am working in my new barn, we are setting up the goat birthing stalls with the camera.I only have 3 weeks till Gretta and Nana go under watch...
What have you done? Did you US? Or are you going to wee foal?
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2643
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I haven't done anything ...LOL I've been sitting here watching the horses to see if anyone comes back into heat, and they have not. At one point, Feathers acted like she was, but never stood for him, so I assume she's bred (I hope so). I might consider wee foal for her, but the others are pretty well in foal, i am sure. Can't wait to see your new goat babies. I want to stream them on my site.....what do you think ? I don't think you've ever been there have you? You can stream to camstreams and my site at the same time, and it's a safe haven from all of the IDIOTS. LOL
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1851
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh that sounds great, lets do it! We can stream both:-)
I need to get updated pics of Gretta, she is HUGE!
One way or another I will Test Bonny, it just depends on what method I settle on.lol.
The problem child this year is Betty, she is my boer/nubian goat. She is only 61 lbs at almost a year old, she is very small. I want to breed her to my pygmy buck, but she just isnt cycling. Either she IS already bred, or she just isnt ready to breed. But goats *typically* start cycling by 8 months old, usually closer to 6 months and some as early as 3! So she has my going NUTS!! She is just the cutest sweetest thing, and also Mollys BFF so I sure hate to have to sell her.
As for Bonny, well I prolly will wait and wee foal her. Right now I have her separated from Tigger and he is not happy lol.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2626
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Be aware that pregnancy testing by blood test for the equine cannot be reliably performed until about 50 days of pregnancy (using a test for eCG), and best reliability for that test is seen between 50 and 70 days of pregnancy. In other words, if your mare was bred mid-August, you're too early for a blood test yet.
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 851
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 03:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, I thought it was 120 days.. maybe I'm thinking of some other test.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you cannot get false positives when testing for eCG, right? Is it okay to do a blood test after 50 days, and still get the correct information. I was planning on doing a blood test on two of my "problem" mares at 5 months before the EHV-1 vaccines are given. They were both last checked in foal at 60 days. Would this be a reasonable thing to do?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2628
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yup, you're thinking of testing for estrogen, which is done after 120 days.

You can indeed get false positives for eCG in the event that the mare was pregnant at 35 days, but lost the pregnancy after that, she will still test positive for eCG presence, (and therefore as being pregnant) until regression of the endometrial cups and cessation of eCG secretion around 100 days or so.

Testing for estrogens at 5 months is certainly fine. You might want to compare the cost of the testing vs. the cost of 3 EHV-1 vaccines though. If you are using the "home test" kit, it probably won't be an issue, but if you are planning on having your vet draw blood and send it off, the cost of the tests may be greater than the cost of the vaccines. Of course, you would know they were still pregnant which is good, and helps next year though! :-)
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1852
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wee foal is also best done after 120 days post breeding.
I was thinking if I was going to go to the vet I would just have her ultra Sound done.

I was wondering though Jos...Maybe you would know, the chemical tested for is similar to estrone sulfate in the wee foal correct? The company doesnt say what it detects other than a hormone secreted by a live foal through the placenta.
SO... I was wondering, if thats correct and thats what the wee foal detects I cant help if wee foal would work for goats, as the bioprym test is for goats, horses and cattle, or are they testing for different things?
BTW Diana my cam is working, I am testing it out Bonny is in right now as she is weaning Tigger so she is under camera. If you want to see if we can get it streamed on your site also let me know.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2630
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 09:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"WeeFoal" is an estrogen assay. I do not know if it is specific for estrone sulfate, or total estrogens. Ultrasound would be best at this stage if that is an option.

I am not familiar with the endocrine profiles of pregnant goats, so I cannot tell if the WeeFoal test would work for goats or not. Additionally, you would have to look at concentration values, and what levels are being tested for in both species.

The product you mention - BioPRYN (note "n", not "m") apparently offers two different tests for the equine and other species. The equine test (BioPRYNes) is testing for estrone sulfate; while the other BioPRYN used in other species is testing for Pregnancy-Specific Protein B (PSPB). Hence, it is reasonable to conclude that (a) you cannot use the same test for both species; and (b) in all likelihood you could not use the WeeFoal check accurately in a goat.
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1853
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos for clearing that up! I wasnt sure what exactly was tested for.



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