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Beginner Breeder

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 2 » Beginner Breeder « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Daena Sawicki
Neonate
Username: Daena

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 09:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone,

Not sure if anyone recalls but I had posted a few times last year around Nov. about the 2 TB mares that I thought were bred. If not here it is in a nut shell.
1st mare "Willow" was bred June 29th, no heat cycles until Nov (thought she miscarried) had blood test done "not in foal" according to Vet (no actual papers from Lab) this would have been her 2nd foal.
2nd Mare "Java" was palp. day 98 of pregnancy same Vet and said that she was in foal but baby is to small and she is absorbing it, also in Nov.
this would have been her 4th foal.
All first with me!

Here we are in May,
Willow looks pregnant, acidentally got milk from her, she has the glands but no bag yet,2 days after getting milk she is showing positive signs of heat to the geldings (in another field) and Java, or sometimes nobody she just urinates and winks. Quite often she will seperate herself from Java and go elsewhere. If this mare is pregnant she is at day 337 day.

Java has milk, she was dripping it on my hand while scratching the inside of her leg, she has also acted like a stallion, by urinating on the other mares urine. Java is also round. This mare has never shown signs of heat, we had to inject her with hormones and give her the HcG after inseminating (pervious owner did that as well to be successful). Java would be at day 281.

So here are my questions,
1 - I read on here someone said that thier vet told them false pregnancy are NOT common in horses, is this so?
2 - If they are common, aside from not getting a foal to confirm, when will the mare dry up?
3 - If I do the PH strip testing on the milk, how accurate is it?

I watch these mare very closely and I have a feeling that they are both pregnant but I could be wrong. I am waiting for the softening around the tail head, complete bagging up, the vulva change, but until then any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your time,
Daena
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 460
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

False preg is not common, but if your mare had been bred and miscarried after 45 days, she would not come back into heat for about 200 days or so. b/c of endometrial cup formation.
2) Many mares tend to leak a little milk this time of year, due to positive energy changes...warm weather, breeding season, green grass...I have one mare who is taking her first year off from breeding in 12 years and she bagged just like she was going to deliver.
3) The above mentioned mare also tested 3 of 4 on the calcium milk strip test...bottom line is, milk has calcium...I have never used the ph strips.
Best way to know is to have your vet (possibly a different one than before) palpate your mares to confirm pregnancy.
I have heard of several mares with hormonal imbalance (or at the end of breeding career) acting studly...I'd have her checked.
Can you post pics? That'd be great!
Best of luck to you!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1944
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have the mares checked by your vet by rectal palpation. It will be easy to detect pregnancy (or not) at this stage. That way you're not playing any guessing games.
 

Daena Sawicki
Neonate
Username: Daena

Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 01:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, thanks for the suggestion, however the mares need to be sedated (abused at one point) and if they are pregnant I am not willing to take a chance. I had to sedate to do all of the artifical inseminating and checking in the beginning. I was actually looking for a way to tell without involving the Vet, like checking the milk through Cal. and PH.
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 187
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you are not willing to sedate them heavily, I would suggest taking them to a facility where they have stocks. Many mares can be rectally palpated with little/no sedation. Although I think it would be fine to sedate them, especially because your only doing it once.

I had a get a pretty deep wound that was extremly close to the hock joint, that bandage had to be changed every day and thoroughly cleaned. She only put up with it twice, then she had to be sedated. That went on for about 10 days, she was about 5 months pregnant, and had a healthy filly.
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 334
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agree with Jos and Samantha.

Get thee to a vet.

Sedation of a pregnant mare isn't optimal but once isn't going to most likely be harmful, particularly as far along as the one mare is. She is at term, technically.

(Message edited by cateowen on May 26, 2008)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1960
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 01:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's less risk in sedation than in missing a foaling that turns out to be a dystocia... :-(
 

Daena Sawicki
Nursing Foal
Username: Daena

Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi again Everybody, I thought that I would add some pictures of Willow as I have already had her checked twice. Milk is test 200ppm and stil 8.4Ph. Your opinions are wonderful, I do have a new vet and they are oncall if she does foal, she is at day 347 today

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/DacodasGirl/Willow3.jpg
This is her the day I got her in 2007.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/DacodasGirl/Willowsothersidea.jpg
This was her on the 28th of May this year

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/DacodasGirl/Willowbum2May28th2008.jpg
Again her on May 28th of this year

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/DacodasGirl/WillowudderJune102008.jpg
Her Udder as of Today June 10, 2008

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/DacodasGirl/WillowSideJune1020081a.jpg
Side View of her today June 10th, 2008

I know that it is hard to tell from pictures but I feel I am in the same boat as alot of people on here, what do you honestly think? I have a vet coming out tomorrow for another horse, I will have her have another look.

Thanks
Daena
 

corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 140
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 01:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow that quite a bit of udder for a non-prego mare? She also has prominate milk veins!!

can you feel the baby move? shes looks a little big but not ready to foal big! tough call. Ive been then, treat her like she is!

My mare was "not pregnant" acording to an ultrasond at 100 days no signs what so ever "no way in foal" the vet told me. i took her in to a differnet vet in feb. and he said " WOW, difenatly pregnant" here is an udder pic of my mare now at 320 days. sorry its so dark
http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh170/newyearsbaby05/rusty%20studly%20pics/?a ction=view&current=udder.jpg
this one was jsut at 300 days
http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh170/newyearsbaby05/rusty%20studly%20pics/?a ction=view&current=bugudderon5_18.jpg

(Message edited by newyearsbaby05 on June 11, 2008)
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 239
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 01:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You typically cannot confirm pregnany at 100 days, as the fetus drops over the pelvic brim. Blood test is your best bet at this point.
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 536
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 07:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Daena, I believe the milk testing won't tell you a whole lot about the situation at this point. As anything you can milk out of her udder is going to have calcium in it whether she's prego or not. The fact that she's got udder development could mean several things. For instance, earlier you stated that this would be her fourth foal...mares that are used to being in foal in spring often develop an udder around foaling time....mine had the same amount of calcium as my mares who foaled 5 days later, but she was not prego, just always a broodmare. Also, seasonal changes such as warmer weather, greener grass, etc. can cause them to have udder changes. So, definitely let us know what the vet says!
 

Bonny
Breeding Stock
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 131
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 08:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree, with the vet coming he should have a definite answer for you in a matter of minutes.
Best of luck and keep us posted!
 

Daena Sawicki
Nursing Foal
Username: Daena

Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 09:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Guys,

Diana thanks for your opinion, just a correction, this is Willow and this would her 2nd foal, her first was over 2 years ago, can she still have milk from that long ago? Why didn't she have milk last year when I got her and she went on the new grass as in the pictures. I am really confused by all of this, I though that you had to be pregnant to produce milk. Well you know not you personally but the horses. Java is the one on her fouth and I was told she wasn't pregnant (also hasn't been bred in 3 years), I have felt the baby move with her. I missed the vet, my fiance delt with her (I got caught up at work)

Samatha, even blood tests are inaccurate, so I have been told by the vets.

Daena
 

Daena Sawicki
Nursing Foal
Username: Daena

Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Corina,

Your mare looks like she is ready to blow at the seams, she looks like she is exceeding her skin limit or is that just the pictures?

I do know that Willow's one and only foal took everything she had and she ended up 200lbs underweight because of it. I am feeding 12lbs of grain a day so that if she is pregnant that she too is getting enough. Tonight there was some gunk (don't know how else to put it) on her vulva, I am keeping a close eye on her regardless, it's not hurting anyone. Both my mares are out 24/7 as it seems to be how they like it, I tried to bring them in at night and Willow started to weave in her stall so I thought this is better for them. They are both locked in an area 80'x160' at night and let out into 3 acres during the day.
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 544
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ahhh...my confusion on the 2nd/4th foal thing. And yes, many mares produce milk seasonally, I have a maiden who does it too!
 

Daena Sawicki
Nursing Foal
Username: Daena

Post Number: 14
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow interesting, see that why this site is resourceful, I did not learn that in the Growth and Development course I took at Guelph University. Thank you!
 

corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 142
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes she is so big and so short backed that she looks like a water ballon... one more ounce and woooshhh! Mine is out all the time too, she has a big barn but she only likes to eat in. i lock her in a smaller pen at night and let her out during the day. if i didnt she would dig a hole to china.
At this point you should be able to see the baby quite abit! I would treat her like she is. If the vet has seen her and doesnt have an explenation as to why shes got milk other then a baby you might start to call other vets and see what everyone has to say. Better to be prepared. We have a mare that has has 6 babys in a row, this years shes open and has a little bag kind of just the very ends of the teats maybe about the size of two $.25 little bouncy balls, and the skin saggs a little. Poor old girl is so happy this year.

can you take a picture down her side and from the rear and chest square on?
 

Dorthy Brown
Breeding Stock
Username: Dodib

Post Number: 306
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a maiden mare that has a swollen udder this year--bigger than the pic you posted so I know that does happen. I would have the vet out to recheck to see if she is in foal or not
I also had one mare a couple years ago go through a false pregnancy.........she looked like she would drop a foal any minute and had a huge udder--eventually it all went away. i had the vet check it and it was just hormonal--he thinks she was probably bred lost the foal but the hormones continued



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