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Breeding a mare with a "dead" tail

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 2 » Breeding a mare with a "dead" tail « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Gina McMahon
Weanling
Username: Moonlitpaints

Post Number: 42
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 01:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am wondering if anyone has tried to breed a mare that has no use of her tail. I have a well bred, good moving, sweet mare that as a result of a botched tail job (done before I bought her)has no use of her tail, it is basically dead. She has had a caslicks to prevent infection. I would love to get a few foals out of this mare, but I'm not sure how much her tail will complicate things. Thanks!
 

Samantha
Yearling
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 67
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By "botched" do you mean broken, as in the case of Saddlebreds? Or docked?
 

Gina McMahon
Weanling
Username: Moonlitpaints

Post Number: 43
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 03:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No I mean like when Western and English AQHA and APHA people inject the tails to make them lay flat against the horses butt, so they can't lift or swish them. Sometimes they overdo it and you end up with a lifeless tail as in this mare. She actually may be better off with it docked, but I'm not sure what that would involve at 8 years old. I just got her, I do show Western and English Pleasure so please do not bash all of us, but I do not inject tails. Could she still have a sucessfull breeding, pregnancy and foaling?
 

Gina McMahon
Weanling
Username: Moonlitpaints

Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone?
 

Michelle Richardson
Yearling
Username: Carefreemom

Post Number: 56
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 09:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gina- I wish I could help you. I have no advise or knowledge with this problem. Have you consulted your vet? I am sorry I am not of any help I just didn't want to ignore your post!

Sorry and Good luck!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1826
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't see why you think this could be a problem, but maybe I'm missing the point somewhere! :-)

In the case of live cover, someone should be moving the tail to one side as the stallion enters the mare;

In the case of AI, the tail is wrapped and held off to one side by the technician;

At the time of foaling, the hormone relaxin causes a complete relaxation of the tail (and other parts of the reproductive tract) - having a tail go "floppy" prior to foaling is one of the signs of impending foaling.

You already have a Caslick procedure in place, which will probably be necessary in many instances to prevent contamination. The only other issue is going to be that you cannot rely on the relaxation of the tail prior to foaling as an indication of impending foaling.

We have bred mares with nerve damage as a result of accidents that has caused no "tail tension" and a complete lack of tone to the vulval region (one can put a Caslick procedure in some of them with no local anaesthetic!) with no problems.
 

Gina McMahon
Weanling
Username: Moonlitpaints

Post Number: 46
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you so much Jos! I'm not sure either what exactly I thought was going to be the problem with it lol! It is just something that I have never run into and had that moment of "hmmm, could this cause a problem?" So maybe about the only issue I will run into is having to pay close attention to her other signs as she gets close to foaling.
Thanks!
 

Phyllis Schroder
Weanling
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 50
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 12:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gina,
I'm sorry to hear that your mares tail was cut for the western pleasure fad. This was one of several horrible things that occurred during that period.
Although I doubt she was botched injections, more likely she was the more popular method of actually lifting the tail and cutting the muscle itself which rendered the tail completely dead and let it lay flat and motionless.
Sick, but alot of people did it.
I'm sure all will go great breeding wise though and you'll have some lovely foals from her.
 

Phyllis Schroder
Yearling
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 51
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 12:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gina,
I just reread the posts and realized that you are showing her western and english pleasure yourself. I have no issues with that in itself but you may not be aware of certain AQHA rules concerning this and may want to look them up.
If your mare is checked at a show and found to have had her tailset tampered with or altered you can and most likely will be disqualified and can be barred from AQHA shows.
This and several other rules applying to headsets came forth after the tail and low headset look became popular and people used cruel methods to achieve the desired appearance.
I don't know if there's anything in the rules about horses having had this prior to their new owners purchase but you may want to check.
Meantime, don't be telling anyone you show with.
 

Gina McMahon
Weanling
Username: Moonlitpaints

Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phyllis, I think I worded my post wrong, lol. I don't have any intentions of showing this particular mare, especially with her tail, she is just going to be a broodmare. But I do like and show western pleasure in general and I just didn't want a big rant about how terrible "those western pleasure" people are since I am one, lol! I agree what happened to her is terrible and it is sad the things that people will do to a horse to achieve a certain look, but I think (and hope) things are finally turning around a little :-)But thank you, because you never know, I could have been a newbie unknowingly taking this mare around and end up getting in trouble with the AQHA! I'm glad you look out for others :-)
 

Gina McMahon
Weanling
Username: Moonlitpaints

Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By the way Phyllis, I just visited your site and LOVE Way Out West, beautiful!
 

Phyllis Schroder
Yearling
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 52
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gina,
Thank you so much, he's my big baby. I desperately need to get some nicer new pics of him. Those are 2 yrs old and he's matured so much since then. But the past 18 mos have been crazy with moving to a new place and trying to redo all the fencing, build barns ect.
Everyday is a workday at our place.
If there's any truth to the saying "There's no rest for the wicked" I must be awful bad.
And, I'm sure there's quite a few western and english pleasure people on the board.
Unfortunately there's always a few bad apples in every discipline that make it look bad for all involved. Hope all goes well and you find her a nice suitable gentleman.
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 149
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 09:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aarrgghhh... a botched tail job. Nothing is worse. As always, Jos is 100% right on this, this shouldn't create any problems in the breeding shed and subsequently the foaling barn that can't be easily remedied. Poor girl, I hope she isn't like one we had that we had to keep her tail wrapped all the time because she couldn't raise it to poop or piddle and poop and piddle would just get matted in it, YUCK!

I show AQHA and have seen this too many times. Typically some trainer decides that they "know how to do this" better than a vet. And/or the theory of if a "little is good", then "a lot must be better".
Funny thing is when the horses have "dead tails" to an extreme, the horse looks awful and typically has a horrid attitude (facial expressions, etc.) People don't win with the really "bad" ones and as Phyllis says they run a huge risk from AQHA if the tail is tested.
I think most judges these days can spot one right off the bat and I don't notice these horses doing very well for the most part. I'm talking about the really obvious ones.
Tails can "be done" in a less dramatic fashion and then horses typically can still have his/her fly swisher and raise it enough to poop.

Of course the ultimate solution is sound training and a happy horse, but apparently that is too difficult for some people.

(Message edited by cateowen on April 14, 2008)
 

Gina McMahon
Weanling
Username: Moonlitpaints

Post Number: 49
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 10:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine, Glad to hear that everything should go as smooth as Jos said even with the whole dead tail to deal with :-) I don't have the mare in my possession just yet. When she is safe in foal she will be comming home to me and we can see just how bad this tail is. If it is as limp as the lday says then she probably will be pooing and piddling all over it. Do laugh too hard at me (I have never dealt with this) but what if I shaved the top of her tail and left the bottom half, like a lion, so that I could keep her cleaner instead of keeping it wrapped?
 

Phyllis Schroder
Yearling
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 56
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know that shaving it would help much but I would certainly make a regular application of mane detangler spray. It should at least help in keeping what she passes from sticking to badly and make for much easier cleaning up of her tail.
Haven't had one of my own with this issue so not sure what would actually work the best but Catherine may have some more good ideas on this.
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 158
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gina,
Shaving the top portion of her tail isn't going to help. The underneath of the top portion of the tail is smooth skin anyway. Your "mess", if this mare has absolutely no tail functions, is going to be in the bottom part of it. Poo and pee will matt the tail and keep it a mess and of course will be a HUGE fly attractant this spring/summer/fall.

I used the wrong word when I said "wrap", what I meant to say is you need to "bag" the mares tail (i.e., a tail bag). That way the tail won't get matted and you can take it down every few days (I always did it daily in the summertime so the flies wouldn't be so bad), rinse it out and put on a new tail bag. Of course you wash the used one for the next change.

Unfortunately this is not a "pretty" situation and will never "get better".

Also the mare will need to have some good fly protection during fly season as she has no use of her tail. A fly sheet will be a godsend to her as well as a daily application of repellent on her hind legs and underbelly.
 

Gina McMahon
Weanling
Username: Moonlitpaints

Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the advice, man is this a great forum! I have the flysheet and mask ready for her and there is a fan attatched to her stall, so I hope she will be more comfy here than at her current home. I think I will probably end up just cutting her tail short to make things easy since she can't swish it anyway, she will just look like she is stuck in the 70s :-)



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