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Ok JOS, another question!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 2 » Ok JOS, another question! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Bonny
Weanling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 28
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 02:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok so we went over the pregnamare test and we talked about the blood test detecting the estradiol levels.We werent sure why the vet tested at 60 days. You said that could have been early? Question is how log can you test for estradiol? will it be in the blood stream until the mare foals?I also put up pictures for you to see of my mare which werent good angles for you to tell anything. So I took new pictures for you. But I am going to start by showing you her in December 28th with her winter woolies:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/minihorse029.jpg
Her shaved today:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/3-27-08027.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/3-27-08030.jpg
looking down the side of her
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/3-27-08017.jpg
This was looking down on her dec 29th
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/bonny009.jpg

Today
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/3-27-08011.jpg
I certainly hope I am not being a pest. I just am confused. I am just curious as to if this mare is bred or not.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1791
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a chart of estrogen levels during pregnancy on the BET Labs, a sister company to BET Pharm (see the link below to go to the BET Pharm site).

The BET sites are in "frames", which makes getting a direct link that will also provide access to the rest of the site difficult. The direct link to the estrgen level information is http://www.betlabs.com/eua/equine/pregn.asp, while the link to the main part of the site is http://www.betlabs.com/
 

Bonny
Weanling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 31
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 04:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, your so helpful! I appreciate this so much! I called and asked the vets office for the estrogen number they got from my mare. They said it was 352. The report read that the estrogen had to be over 5000 to be considered pregnant, there fore the report said she was either under 60 days or not pg.
That differs greatly from the stats I read at bet labs. Just curious if you heard of this?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1792
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

352 what?

If the units of measurement are not the same, then you can't compare the figures!

The BET labs measurements are in pg/ml (picograms per millilitre).

If the units are the same then the results indicate a pregnancy either up to about 120 days, or close to foaling.
 

Bonny
Weanling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 32
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand that. I was trying to ask for but she kept telling me 353.0. she couldnt tell me pg/ml She just said it was based on a 5000 count thats how they determined under 60 days or not pregnant. I didnt know of any other scale so I wondered if you had heard of a different scale.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1793
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It could be measured in moles. Probably nmol/ml, mmol/l or nmol/l.
 

Bonny
Weanling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 09:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you,once again!
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 62
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok so with all that, now things have gotten stranger.

This mare who tested neg in Jan by wee foal pos in Feb by wee foal and neg in March by Blood estradiol is still getting wider, she is 52 inches around the tummy and 34 inches tall, she was 43 inches around in Dec and 48 in Feb.
I am going to show side views.
Jan
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/wetbonn023-1.jpg
March 20
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/3-20-08006-1.jpg
April 9th
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/4-8-08033-1.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/4-1-08yard010-1.jpg
April 11th
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/4-9-08029.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/4-11-08012.jpg
Notice the Udder change in 2 days!
What is going on? Do yall think she is having a false pregnancy? Or do I need to get the Vet back out?

(Message edited by Bonny on April 12, 2008)
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 64
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 11:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also think her rump is softening. I took pics to compare.
Compare belly and croup. Please. What do you think?

4-9
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/4-9-08029-1.jpg
4-13
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/4-13-08020-1.jpg
 

corina gabel
Weanling
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 50
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 10:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

haha 52 inches around the tummy and 34 inches tall---she is wider then she is tall!! sorry i found this funny :-) she does look to be getting bigger behind the ribs. have you tried to put your ear up to her belly and just poke her under belly? or have some one poke her from the other side?i can sort of fell our baby move. I know last year i got kicked a few times hard and you could see little hoofs if you poked enuff!! this does upset the mare and they will give you THE LOOK but its quite interesting. Being a mini its got to be hard. Have you tried another vet yet?

ohh it does look like her tail is sofing. just keep taking pics and then compare.
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 67
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 07:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not sure but she is sure showing some weird signs if she isnt preg!

4-9-08
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/4-9-08020.jpg

4-15-08
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/4-15-08036.jpg

I am thinking her vulva is relaxing also
4-11-08
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/4-11-08001.jpg
4-15-08
[IMG]http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/4793ShyAnne/Copyof4-15-08025.jpg[/IMG]
 

Joyce
Breeding Stock
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 129
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bonny, Cookies Vulva doesn't look anything like that. Thats very swollen compared to Cookie.
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 68
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 04:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Really? She also had looser stools again today.
She seems to be spending a lot of time by herself out in the pasture. There is a corner where all the horses ( mine and the 2 different neighbors ) meet. There are 10 horses total. They all spend a lot of time resting in this corner together. Bonny spent very little time in this corner today.She has been out in the back of the pasture or under the covered area where I feed them.
I have a call into my vet to see what he thinks. I sent him pics via e mail also. So I am waiting to hear back.
 

Dorthy Brown
Breeding Stock
Username: Dodib

Post Number: 274
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She does look pregnant to me. My mare last years vulva was swollen just like that prior to foaling
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 70
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Today the vet is coming at 2:30 lets hope we figure this out!
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 1185
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keeping fingers crossed for you Bonny!
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 72
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 07:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thankies y'all, Bonny is not preggers as in due now but may be preg from Feb so we have to do more blood work. But at least I know she isnt about to foal!
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 84
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So after all that... Bonny came into heat last friday and was really showing strong. We have bred every day so far and it has been 5 days. I am not sure how much longer she will stand for him, but I plan to let him cover her as long as she will allow.
I sure hope she takes this time, if not we can do one more cycle. If she doesnt take that time we are done for the year.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1892
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why are you breeding her every day? That will tend to increase the inflammation in the uterus, and potentially lower pregnancy rates! Breed every other day unless you have a stallion with fertility issues.
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 85
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 10:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, thank you for that information.

New Question.
First breeding date-Friday 5-2-08
last cover date- Wed 5-7-08
When to tease her again? 5-22 or 5-28?
remember she is a mini and our vet doesnt have a US that is capable to do internal US to check for pregnancy.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1924
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Start teasing 14 days after she last "stood" for the stallion, and tease every other day (or every day if you want, but every other is fine) until day 26.

How do you mean that your vet doesn't have an ultrasound that is capable of an internal check for pregnancy on a miniature? We work with a large miniature farm that does palpations and ultrasounds on their miniatures using standard ("regular" horse) ultrasound equipment. Unless you have a vet with extremely large arms, or a mare that is fractious (can we say "drugs"? :-)), there is no reason why the majority of miniatures should not be managed the same as large horses for breeding.
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 87
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 07:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos, My vet is not experienced in minis. He does not feel comfortable palpating them. His probe for internal US is broken and also it is for standard size which he does not feel comfy using on a mini.
He can US her externally but he doesnt feel that he would be skilled enough to find it if it was even possible at this stage. So we are left with blood work.
I have tiny hands and arms and would love to know how to palpate her. I just dont have the experience, and would not want to harm her.
 

Joyce
Breeding Stock
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 151
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 09:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I may butt in and talk about Vets and Minis? I think there are many Vets that would benifit from manditory classes in minis. In my state, there is one Vet that I know of that will palpate a mini! My Vet that came and did my shots is tiny, and she would not palpate my mini mare! Jos, is palpation a more reliable way of finding out if a mini mare is pregnant than a Vet that does an internal ultrasound?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1926
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 11:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ultrasound is always going to be more accurate. Palpation cannot detect twinning or EED.

If a vet has a small hand/arm and suitable training, assuming the normal parameters and restrictions that apply to all equine rectal work, there is no reason why they cannot perform either a rectal palpation or rectal ("internal") ultrasound of miniature horses using standard sized equine rectal probes.
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 88
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it just boils down to the vets comfort level. There is a equine hospital I can take her to but its 1&1/2 hours from here. I do not have a trailer. Hence the need for a vet that does farm calls.



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