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Is biopsy necessary every year?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 2 » Is biopsy necessary every year? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 779
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 9 year old mare that is barren (she's had 3 foals in the past) that had Strep Zoo. last year. She was very thin and not in the best health. She traveled from Florida to Indiana in December of 2006 and arrived at our place with her backbone protruding and every rib very visable. Of course she needed a blanket for the remainder of winter.

In the spring of 2007 she had a culture done, cytology and biopsy (biopsy came back Grade 1)but had Strep. Zoo. (She has caslicks). The first time she was bred she was medicated before and after breeding. She did not get pregnant. She was bred two more times, the last time in August using "Settle" and Oxytocin. Before her last breeding, she had a culture done and it came back clean. We tested her thyroid, after the last breeding and it came back borderline low on the FT3. We are going to retest her thyroid next week.

This year we are going to try and breed her again. She is in very good health and has good weight on her and is not having a problem keeping warm this winter without a blanket. We are going to culture and do a cytology this spring to make sure she's clean.

My question is, do you think it would be a good idea to do another biopsy on her this spring? Or do you think it would not be necessary?

Sorry for the detail, but I wanted you to know the full story so that you can give me your best advice.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.
Marilyn
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 518
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I personally have never biopsied anything, I culture. Also did you know if you used settle twice in a row and your mare did not conceive they will refund your money? Call the company that makes settle and they will send you the forms. I think all you have to do is provide them with a copy of your vet bill or your vet has to fill out and sign a form. I've gotten hundreds back!
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 781
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, I've heard that, but you have to respond within a month and I didn't get it done in time, so I missed out. Shoot!!! Next time I'll be more timely.

Thanks Cathy for all your help!
Marilyn
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1686
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is strange that your mare had a grade 1 biopsy, but that your vet felt that there was a treatable Streptococcal infection. Essentially a grade 1 score indicates an endometrium that has nothing wrong with it, but a uterus with a Streptococcal (or any) infection is going to have inflammatory cells present - which will show on the biopsy (and therefore lower the score). This leads me to believe that either the biopsy was incorrect, or the Strep. was a contaminant and did not need treatment.

I would feel inclined to perform the biopsy and culture again - and seeing as she had previously been treated with antibiotics, also check for a yeast presence.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 784
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great advise, thank you, I'll do just that.
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 520
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 08:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No not within a month I do all mine at the conclusion of breeding season.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 788
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Cathy, I screwed up during last year's breeding. I did all the test within 3 weeks of breeding last year. Not only that, we were medicating during breeding. There is so much to learn!

We retested this mare last fall in 2007, and she was clean. This spring I'll do the tests when she's in transition and be ahead of the game. That way if she's infected, I'll have time to get her clean.

I've heard not to test too close to breeding, but of course that was too late for me for last year's breeding, I had already been there done that. I'm learning the expensive and hard way. lol But I'm learning.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1687
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With her comment about "not within a month" I think Cathy is referencing the claiming against "Settle" for failure to work rather than testing the mare.

There is little point in testing the season before you plan on breeding as during the winter anestrus the cervix is open, thereby potentially allowing the passage of pathogens into the uterus. This means that by the time the next season rolls around there could well be a completely different set of results and the last years results are leading you into a false sense of security.

Testing while the mare is still transitional is little better, as there are more likely to be pathogens present (owing to the relaxation of the cervix which does not tighten until after her first ovulation of the year), and also if there is a pathogen present the mare may be able to clear it herself when her uterine immune system increases during her first few estrus', so you may end up (a) treating her unnecessarily; and (b) creating a superinfection such as I referenced above.

The best time to test is one or two cycles before the one you plan on breeding on. If you have suspicions of a problem then testing two cycles prior is better as that gives you the chance of treatment before breeding (but limits the chances of reinfection as there is little time elapsed between treatment and breeding).
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 789
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Makes a lot of sense Jos. Thank you for giving such detailed explanation. I understand what you're saying completely.

I appreciate all the help all of you are giving me. It helps me tremendously!
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 792
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, the form that they gave me regarding Settle, said that the completed form must be filled out and returned within a months time.
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 523
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I return all mine at the conclusion of breeding season, send in your receipts and paperwork with a letter of explanation maybe even lie a bit saying your vet misadvised you. Can't hurt to try.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 821
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Cathy I think I will do that, the worst they can say is "sorry, no go"
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 524
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 07:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly my theory is you never know if you don't try!
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 839
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Cathy, I appreciate your advise. I'll let you know what happens.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 840
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I called and she said she would have to ask her boss, who's out of town. But she didn't think he would honor it. She said that I had until October. I told her it said on the form, it had to be in within a month. But she said they were honoring it until October. Shoot, I should have sent it in anyway. Who knows maybe they're feel generous. I hope so.

She said they're running that same promotion this year, so that's good. I plan on using it again.

Thank you so much Cathy. I'll let you know what they say.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1692
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ummm.... if it didn't work for you are you sure you should be using it again??? :-)
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 525
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 06:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For me the three mares it did not work on are labled "problem" mares who would only get in foal if a fairy lands on their vulva at time of breeding. for the most part it did work for me though on real mares.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 853
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 07:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yea, my mare is a problem mare. There were a few things she was dealing with that could have caused this problem with getting pregnant.

Since then, these have been or soon will be corrected. If she doesn't get pregnant this season, I regretfully will have to sell her. I hope it doesn't come to this because she is a fantastic horse and there is not doubt she would produce an awesome foal.

I guess we'll have to see what happens this year.



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