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Mare not taking new born foal

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 2 » Mare not taking new born foal « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Torrie Lindner
Neonate
Username: Seeyah_n00b

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 11:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

is it a bad thing when a mare wont take care of foal and does not produce any milk to feed foal need help and ideas we even tryed to milk the mare and were not able to get 1 oz so we bought colosterum any ideas will help foal 16 hrs old
 

Jenni Luttrell
Breeding Stock
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 472
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 11:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

has the vet done a blood test yet? she probably isnt taking the foal because of her lack of milk. Its possible she can be given a shot to bring down her milk then she may take it. Feed 1-2 pints of colostrum every four hours, for the first 48 hrs after that you can switch to milk replacer.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 650
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Torrie, I hope the vet can get her milk to come in. But it sounds like Jenni has your answer. Please keep us posted on your progress.
 

Paul Liberty
Nursing Foal
Username: Sptxthrill

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Torrie,
if you can feed alfalfa that would help with the milk production. I have also used "Equidone" (domperidone) to help the mare produce more milk.
 

Paul Liberty
Nursing Foal
Username: Sptxthrill

Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 05:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Torrie, I've been thinking of your mare and foal. Could you give us an update please?
thanks
 

Jenni Luttrell
Breeding Stock
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 478
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007 - 09:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes plz give us an update we would really apreciate it
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 652
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 05:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also have been watching this thread to see how the foal's been doing. Please give us an update to ease my mind. Thank you!
 

Torrie Lindner
Neonate
Username: Seeyah_n00b

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 05:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the foal died at abot930 pm
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 658
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 05:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Torrie, I'm heartsick about your foal. I know how you feel, I've lost one myself in the past. I wish you didn't have to experience such a tragic loss. I'm so sorry for your loss.

I'm sure you've done everything you could to help this little one, but sometimes it just isn't meant to be. I wish you much better luck in 2008.

Marilyn
 

Leonard Kistner
Weanling
Username: Len

Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't believe we should leave Torries questions unanswered even though the foal is gone. Yes its a bad thing thatThe mare isn't going to have milk to feed the foal. yes its a bad thing that the mare won't mother the foal.You did right by getting the Colostrum. The foal should have the Colostrum ASAP. The window is closeing after 12 hrs. Sandy always tells her customers, get the Colostrum into the foal befor 6 hrs. Some mares will come into milk after foaling. BUT, if they don't, there are shots that can be given. Nursemares to be gotten.Bucket feeding with good milk replacers.and everything should come together quickly. Whatever the answer the foal should not be stressed. If a milk replecer can't be gotten right away,get 2% milk out of a store. Same goes for waiting for a Nursemare. Keep the foal from being stressed. When feeding with a bucket, get a companion foal. Not possable! get a goat etc. Its to bad that things like Torries experence has to happen. They do though. We just have to make the best of it. Many of the problem foalings happen out in the boondocks, where it takes many hours to even get to a town. One such call came to Sandy 3 yrs ago. The young girl had nothing to help her with a problem just like Torries. Sandy asked if there were any Dairy farms near by. The girl ended up taking the foal to her friends Dairy. Together they gave the foal colostrum from a cow. Hobbled a cow that had a calf at side and introduced the foal to its new mother. Anyway it was fast and the foal did fine until they could get the foal on a bucket. When they did finely get a vet out, he wasn't supprised. He seen things like this all the time. Torrie, keep your chin up. Read as much as you can about what happened and the process of foaling. Read about as many experences as you can. You can always ask questions of qualified people. You can always email Sandy, shes listed under Nursemares here. good luck.
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 513
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good post Leonard, sorry for your loss Torrie. Oxytocin helps a mare to drop the milk. It is also important, very important to note, When it comes to a foal's life, waiting is not an option, you must be proactive. If you have no answers to questions call yor local University. But as you know foals go down hill very quickly, so you have to act at turbo speed.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 665
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy do you think it would be a good idea to have Oxytocin on hand before foaling, just in case?
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 462
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Torrie, I am sooooo sorry for you loss. Please hang in there and know you did what you could.

Since this should be used as a learning experience as Leonard was stating (and Cathy too) I wanted to tell a small story. A few yrs ago my mare foaled (3rd baby, good mama, no problems with milk) but for some reason we could not get that foal to nurse. She was standing and would get in position but could not get ahold of the nipple. At 2 hrs after birth I called the vet, he was at another call so I called another vet. He was at another call (colic case) so I called a third. Finally I got a vet out but it was about 8 hrs after birth and when we tested her she did not have any antibodies so she ended up with a plasma transfusion. I'm happy to say 3 yrs later she's a gorgeous healthy filly but it was close there for awhile. Moral of the story, I won't even wait 2 hrs now if the foal isn't nursing. If it's obvious that there is a problem I will call the vet ASAP and do whatever possible in the meantime.
 

Jane
Yearling
Username: Dizzykizzy

Post Number: 100
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What absolutely dreadful news. Torrie, I am so sorry for your loss. You must be quite devastated.
 

Torrie Lindner
Neonate
Username: Seeyah_n00b

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 11:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thank you for all the information. everything that i went through is hard and i reallize that it is part of life the hardest problem was telling my 3 yr old daughter here colt died. but now all we can do now is hope that it dont happen again. once again thanks for all the help.
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 955
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Torrie~my deepest sympathy. What a hard loss. :-(
I lost a foal in 2006 and it was so hard. But through support and the hope that I might get a healthy foal we tried again and we got a beautiful healthy filly this past July. So I encourage you once you regroup to think forward and perhaps give it another go. Give your daughter a hug and a kiss yo is lucky to have a caring parent like yourself!
 

Paul Liberty
Weanling
Username: Sptxthrill

Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Torrie,
I am sorry to hear about the loss of your foal. I hope that in the future it doesn't happen again. Leonard and Cathy posted some very helpful information so I hope that will help everybody that may have the same situation arise. Again, sorry for your loss.
Paul
 

charlene birdsall, Baby due 4/2/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 234
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Torrie, I am so sad about the loss of your foal.

Has anyone ever used the product "Foal Discovery", or something like it? Could Torrie have used something like this to save the foal? I was thinking of getting some as part of my foal kit.
 

Paul Liberty
Weanling
Username: Sptxthrill

Post Number: 23
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 02:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlene, I haven't heard of "Foal Discovery" but i do keep "Seramune Equine IgG" on hand and give it to all the newborns as soon as they hit the ground and it has been a life saver in a few of the foalings here. http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=08d5aa65-8a58-41ea-b1d7-1575b3985 4b0to
 

charlene birdsall, Baby due 4/2/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 236
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 02:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Paul, I saw the Seramune Equine IgG in my valley vet catalog. The Foal Discovery is also in there right below it. Would these products save a foal if the mare didn't have any milk, and how long do you give it before giving milk replacer?
 

Paul Liberty
Weanling
Username: Sptxthrill

Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlene, I give 1/2 a bottle (150cc) of the Seramune orally to the foal before the foal tries to nurse then wait about 6 hrs to give the other 1/2 of the bottle. I know it says to give it within 1-2 hours apart but my vet suggests waiting 6 hrs but it has to be given within 12 after foaling. If the mare has NO milk at all, you need to start the foal on milk replacer ASAP. I use the 'Mare Match' milk replacer. as far as the 'foal discovery' goes I don't have any experience with that one so I can't say it would 'save' a foal. All the foals here get the Seramune and their bloodwork comes out great for the IgG.
(I should add that I have been foaling mares out for 30+ years)
I hope that helps ya some.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 671
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paul, I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind. Does the foal drink this readily or is it almost like force feeding this to the foal? I was thinking it probably drinks the first half alright, but after drinking the mare's milk, how easily does it take the second half?

My mare leaked all her colostrum the day before she foaled, so the vet had to give him plasma intervenously. So you're saying if I had given the foal Seramune, he would have been fine and not needed the hyperimmune plasma?

Thanks, Marilyn
 

Leonard Kistner
Weanling
Username: Len

Post Number: 25
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I should maybe not comment on subsitutes for Colostrum. I hate like heck for people to get the wrong impression. BUT. Sandys Nursemare Service has had a Colostrum Bank for many years. This year she broke the bank.She just sent out the last bags of Colostrum to Cal. Now She has to build up the amount of colostrum for a Bank agan. For years she has sent Colostrum all over the USA. She has gone over to Stewart air port and sent Colostrum by Delta airways and others to get the colostrum to where it had to be befor the foal was born. Of course this isn't the norm But it does happen. There are some things that any horse opperation has to have on hand. Any Mansger worth his or her salt on a breeding farm would have Colostrum in the freezer, right? Not just a breeding farm,maybe a back yard small breeder would have some on hand. It keeps for 3 yrs.and if it don't get used,feed it to the cat. get some more and if the day does come and ya need it its there. Milking out some colostrum from your mares could be a life savr down the road.There is no subsitute for the real colostrum and I dont care what your vet says. These subsitutes don't cover everything. I see them as an easy way out. Getting Colostrum, Sandys rule of thumb, One teat for the foal and the other for the freezer. One milking is all she takes. The mare will keep making colostrum for few hrs. The foal will get its share. Some mares are better milkers than others, but if you can get a quart in the freezer, wether it be 4 oz.from your first mare or more from others, so be it. I could never understand why other people didn't have a supply in their freezers like Sandy did. I just thought it happened on every horse farm. A woman sitting on a bucket under a horse just like she did with her Cow, Nutmeg. AT one time our second freezer was mostly colostrum and horse milk. Reminds me, I had horse milk in my coffee during a snow storm. again when we just ran out of milk. OH well. Theres a thing about people and I mean everybody. We all have an idea that we will never need whatever we need. The horse breeder up the road lost a mare last week and had to get a Nursemare, the boy said as he gave her the nursemare business card. She put it in the trash saying she will never need it. 3 yrs later. The breeder that had a Nursemare and didn't bother to breed her back, when the contract said she had to be bred back. He sent her home open. He will never need a nursemare again. 2yrs later. The back yard breeder almost lost a foal because her mare was NI and the mares Colostrum would kill her foal. She said that it was the stallion and she wouldn't breed to him again. No need for colostrum. The next foal. It happens. I don't want to say that breeders are lazy, I don't want to say that they have money to burn and can buy all the colostrum they need. None of that. But why do some foals have to die because Colostrum isn't as easy to get as some think. Some think that it should be given without cost just because its there and will save a foals life. Look around see how well its stocked. Some think a vet should have it,guess again.Its easier to stock the subsitute. Anyway I'm rambaling here. I just want to try and get some of you to milk these mares. The ones listed on cyberfoal to have colostrum,don't have a drop. they were wiped off last I looked. Save that money you might use on a subsitute and get a big coffee cup from dunken donuts.To catch the milk. A large mens white hankerchief to flter the milk. Some Pint sized zip-lock freezer bags. A pen to write the date and Mares name. Your in business. You just saved a foal. Thanks for reading
 

charlene birdsall, Baby due 4/2/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 237
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 08:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Paul for the info, I really appreciate it. I also am curious to the answer to Marilyn's question.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 672
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 09:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paul, one more quick question. I've heard that if a mare is leaking colostrum, there's a product called Stop leak that you put on the ends of her teats and it will keep the colostrum from leaking out. Have you heard of this product or anything else like it?
Thank again, Marilyn
 

Paul Liberty
Weanling
Username: Sptxthrill

Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Marilyn,
No, I don't you asking me questions, hopefully I'll have an answer for ya! lol
I give the Seramune orally with a 60cc syringe, so yeah you are basically 'force' feeding it to the foal. It's kind of a sticky substance and I'm not sure what it tastes like, lol, but the foals are more or less 'hungry' after they hit the ground so most of them like the first dose of it and I had a few that would suck on the end of the syringe to get it but after that first initial dose they may not like it...

I always run an IgG bloodwork on them at 24hrs old to make sure they got colostrum. The Seramune is like giving them a 'boost'.

As far as the plasma goes, all foals are different, just like humans, and some foals will require plasma but with my experience using the Seramume has been alot cheaper than having to run plasma to the foal.
Now mind you, we send our mares out to the breeding farms, so we 'double' protect our foals immune system and also run plasma to them.

I hope that helped.
Paul
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 673
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paul and Leonard, I appreciate your imput regarding colostrum. Thank you so much!

Marilyn
 

Paul Liberty
Weanling
Username: Sptxthrill

Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're welcome Marilyn.

I just want to clairify that I don't want anybody to think that the Seramune is an easy way out, but it is an alternative and I have milked mares believe me and I do have colostrum in my freezer. I have it in plastic baggies and baby bottles with the mares name and date on it and I have used it. A few years ago we had a mare test NI Positive so when the foal was born, I had to muzzle the foal so he couldn't get any of the mares milk and that's when the colostrum in my freezer came in handy.



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