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Confused

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 2 » Confused « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Daena Sawicki
Neonate
Username: Daena

Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Morning everyone,

I have 2 mares that I have bred this passed summer, my one mare "Willow" is at day 140 (today) and my other mare "Java" is at day 94 (today). Since the day that Willow was bred (June 29th) she has NOT shown any signs of heat except for around the 2 month mark (from research hormone change) and now 3 days ago she started showing signs again, very friendly and lovey dovey with Java, frequent urination, squealing. They are together 24/7, no geldings with them (another field), no stallions around anywhere and it is the middle of November. Should she not be out of heat season?
Is she going through another hormone change?
If Hormone change, should I be expecting more?
This is where I get confused, in a previous post Jos stated "If a mare does not show estrus ("heat") by day 26, there is a 90% chance that she is pregnant." I had her palpated on day 68 and the vet could not find anything and he left it at that. I do not agree with him and I was told by another breeder that TB mares can hide the fetus in the uterus and that ultrasound is more accurate. The vet is no longer working in my area (young vet and has moved on). I thought that I would know by Spring if she comes into heat again then she is not pregnant (can't afford anymore vet bills to have her rechecked)

Her owner was out (leased mare)a week and a half ago and I have never ever seen a horse stress as much as this one did, she pooped 4 times in 5 minutes and stayed at the back of her 2 acre field, she paced back at forth, she wouldn't eat, took me 30 minutes to get her to come to me after her owner left and she has been fine ever since, it was awful. Could this have had some effect on her being pregnant this late into pregnancy?
Help, not sure what's going on!
Any information is GREATLY appreciated!!!
you would think that I am the one that is pregnant :-)
Daena
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1625
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's really no definitive way to "guess" the pregnancy status of your mare. You need to have her checked using either ultrasound, or probably more easily at this stage, a blood-hormone assay for estrogen levels. Note that there is also a urine test ("FoalProof") that can also be conducted at this time.

All else is mere hypothesis... :-)
 

Daena Sawicki
Neonate
Username: Daena

Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 10:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info Jos, I think my actual question was lost through my babble. Do mares go through a hormone change at this stage in pregnancy (around day 140) and are there more hormone changes to come? I will definately look into the blood test, I wanted to do that long ago but I had to wait until a certain stage. Thanks in advance.
Daena :-)
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 482
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Daena mares go through various hormone changes but my mares never tease to one another, your mare needs to be checked sounds as if she aborted.
 

Daena Sawicki
Neonate
Username: Daena

Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for your reply Cathy, if she has would there be evidence in the field where she is being kept or would it still be in her? Vet is on the way, I was just wondering. Thanks again.
Daena
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 483
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No evidence , buzzards are good at picking up the remains. Good luck hope your vets news is positive.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1626
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mares go through a variety of hormone changes during pregnancy, so it would be unreliable to attempt to associate "unusual" behaviours based on either being pregnant or not.

As far as mares teasing while pregnant is concerned - about 10% will. And some will tease to other mares or geldings, just as they will when not pregnant.
 

Lisa R.
Breeding Stock
Username: Lisa98

Post Number: 182
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What was the news from your vet? I hope it was good....
 

Daena Sawicki
Neonate
Username: Daena

Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone,

Sorry it has taken me so long to return my reply as to what has been happening. Apparently she wasn't pregnant at all. My vet has left the town I live in so I had to get another one. She drew blood and sent it to Guelph for testing and apparently she is not pregnant. Progesterone is less than .6nmol/L. This vet tells me that blood tests are not accurate though. I am beginning to question the capablities of vets in this area. She also palpated my other mare at day 98 and says that she was pregnant and the size is too small to be at the day she's at so she was in absorbtion stage, could this be true? I have researched this and I quote "Palpation per rectum
Cervical changes from 16 or 17 d to term are elongation, firmness and tubularity. The uterus also has increased tone.
The chorionic vesicle is distinct and spherical and approximate sizes are:
28 d (4 wks) Key lime (pullet egg)
35 d (5 wks) lemon
42 d (6 wks) orange
49 d (7 wks) grapefruit
56 d (8 wks) cantaloupe
By 90 d it is hard to delineate the cranial margin of uterus.
Fetal Ballotment per rectum becomes consistent after 150d.
Aging fetus by size, as in the cow, is imprecise.
Differentials which may confuse the examiner include the bladder and enlargement in the non pregnant tract at the base of the uterine horn." from Louisiana State University SCHOOL OF VETERINARY MEDICINE (Great site) http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/theriogenology-5361/equine%20pregnancy_2.ht m

Any opinions or experiences would be great, thanks.
Daena}



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