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Older Pregnant Mare With Growing Lump on Belly

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 2 » Older Pregnant Mare With Growing Lump on Belly « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Jacey
Neonate
Username: Eric5242

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 03:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is our first experiance with a pregnant mare, due to foal mid June. We have noticed that she had a little bump in the middle section, left side of her abdomen, it looked a little like a possible hernia close to where a hind cinch would set. In the last couple weeks we have noticed that it had doubled in size. It feels like a bulding hernia with fluid? We would love some ideas and suggestions, we are getting nervous and are trying to get in with the vet who seem to be swamped right now with babies. P.S. She is a 23 year old brood mare who has sucessfully carried 9 foals and is in great condition and no other health concerns.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 183
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

23 years old and you are still breeding her??? Yikes, its just me but I would call your vet and let them see this "lump".
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 182
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 04:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jacey do you have any photos?
 

Jacey
Neonate
Username: Eric5242

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 10:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do not have any photos, the vet will see her tommarrow and we will post any information we get We actually bought this mare in foal, about 6 months ago she is bred very well and hope to get her through this pregnancy.
 

Jennifer Graef
Weanling
Username: Kakadu

Post Number: 24
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is nothing wrong with breeding a 23 year old mare what-so-ever. If she is healthy and keeps her weight easily she will likely be much happier. Many old broodmares that are used to having foals with become extremely depressed when the other mares foal in spring. My vet has has always said for each year we can get an 20+ mare bred that one more year we can add onto her life. He said the longer you can keep a mare producing the longer she will live. It keeps her active.
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 532
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 31 yr. old mare that comes alive when she sees a foal. Have to watch her, and isn't allowed around a new baby until it's about 3 weeks old 'cause she's a baby snatcher!
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 189
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 08:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I disagree and so do a ton of vets in Ocala and Lexington. Breeding an older mare deprives her of calcium and thus puts her skeletal structure at great risk. If you choose to get foals from your mare for whatever reason it is highly encouraged to put the foal on a nurse mare upon arrival. In doing this you do not stress her system so much.
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 535
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it probably depends on the mare. There are mares that go on to be great producers into their 20's..get the best of care, feed, etc.
I don't have a problem breeding a 20+ mare, but she would have to clear a physical/repro exam...and be in excellent condition.
If I had a great mare, that warrants continue breeding into her 20's, I'd flush an embryo...but, that's not necessarily practical for most.
While my 31 yr. old mare has been retired from breeding for ohhh..15 or so years, no one would think twice when they looked at her. She looks like 15, not 31. No foals for her though :-)...major trouble during foaling, so she has the job of being a bossy babysitter.
 

Leia
Weanling
Username: Leia

Post Number: 41
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 02:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really wish I could bred my 20 year old mare. But alas she is a maiden and at 20 is just too old for all that to stretch and work for the first time. But if she were not a maiden, I would still be breeding her. I have seen lots of mares in there 20's breed and be no worse for the wear, if they can sustain it without too much pull on her. It all depends on the situation and the individual mare!
 

Kim Winter
Breeding Stock
Username: Clafairy

Post Number: 584
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 08:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare was 20 when she had her foal last may and she has never looked in better condition than when she was pregnant. If it wasnt for her navicular I would breed her again at this year. She is a fnatastic mum, she lets me do whatever I want with the foal and she has had all her babies right in the middle of the day with no problems at all. I would love to breed with her rather than another so I could garauntee getting a baby at a decent hour each year instead of all that sleep deprivation : )
 

Kim
Neonate
Username: Brannah

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have two 23 year old mares in foal for this year.
One will be new to me, so I'm excited to see her foal. She is in great shape and has had 2 other foals in her life. My other mare I've had since she was 7 years old and was a wonderful mom through the years. She is also a 'baby stealer' if she doesn't have one of her own. I've never had a problem breeding or foaling out an older mare and I've had lots.
 

Jennifer Graef
Weanling
Username: Kakadu

Post Number: 25
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
If you are having to count the veterinary support for an issue by the physical weight (tons) of vets then you may need to re-evaulate the usefulness.. I mean you could have 10 skinny vets support it and just a few overweight vets disagree....what does that really tell you?

In addition the University of Kentucky has done a study that shows that horses do not "mobilize" the calcium in their skeletal system to support a developing fetus like some other species do.

Horses also do not have menopause and therefore do not suffer from bone density loss. The only reason for density loss would be inadaquate diet or absorbtion. If your mare has compromised nutrient absorbtion due to scar tissue in the intestines or other reasons you would not be breeding her anyway becasue she would be a hard keeper and not a good candidate. If your mare is shiny coated and keeps her weight there is much more eveidence that breeding will extend her years and keep her bright.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 191
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tell that to my 21 year old mare who slipped and broke her pelvis and upon necropsy her skeletal structure was very very frail. Her feeding program was great.
 

Leia
Weanling
Username: Leia

Post Number: 47
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy ~ I knew a mare that slipped and broke her pelvis at 2 years old and also had great nutrition. Sometimes it just happens?

Pretty much I think it all depends on the mare in question...I don't think there are many complete generalizations that you can apply to the entire equine world, there is always an exception or different opinion on EVERY subject.

I am sorry for your 21 year old mare, I do not mean to sound cold towards her situation and I am sorry if it comes out that way.
 

Jennifer Graef
Weanling
Username: Kakadu

Post Number: 26
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The leading causes of calcium problems in horses are due to diet and care.

Horses have a MUCH greater exchange of calcium in their bones. They are constantly mobilizing calcium from their bones and pulling new calcium from their bloodstream to replace it. It happens at a much higher rate then in humans (especially men) and therefore problems in diet and care are amplified and noticable faster then in humans.

The number one reason is a poor calcium:Phos ratio. This is EXTREMELY common in older horses due to an increased amount of bran/grain/wheat in the diet.

A close second is caused by lack of "impact" exercise. Horses were designed to travel miles a day. Their bones gain density based on how much stress is put on them. Horses that are older and are less likely to walk, run, jump and other high impact activites will have less bone density. Foaling certainly keeps them active. It also STOPS calcium mobilization for the duration of the pregnancy due to hormone levels.

The number three cause, lack of vit D3. There is a new phenomonon where horses live indoors in stalls out of the sum. Without daily exposure to sunlight horses become vit D3 deficient and are unable to absorb calcium no matter how much is fed.

I am sorry that your mare had an injury. I am sure that she was not pregnant at the time based on your beliefs...so it was obviously due to something else.

I mean think about this for a second... Premarin PREgnant MAre's URINe was the number one drug used to treat osteoporosis for a long time. This is because the hormones in the urine help to stop bones loss....
 

Lori Coleman
Breeding Stock
Username: Editorlady

Post Number: 281
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim Winter, your navicular mare I have a question about. I have one too, diagnosed since she had her last foal. Last year, I put a weanling in with her because of her love of babies, and she was so happy. The downside was that she'd let the colt suck on her teats (she never produced milk though). She has a decent pedigree, and I wouldn't mind breeding her again, but I've heard many times to not breed a navicular mare. Is it because, A), the disease is hereditary, or B), that the extra weight is really hard on the diseased bone structure?
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 537
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lori,

Regarding to breeding....the jury is still out regarding the hereditary nature of navicular. While the condition itself may or may not be hereditary, the confirmation/structure that predisposes navicular can be.
I have seen a bit of both...mares with it that the foals seemed fine later in life. Also saw one mare in particular that EVERY foal she had went on to be navicular. Coincidence...dunno.
I have a navicular mare...I decided not to continue to breed her (along with problems foaling) because of A&B.
Having delt with her so long, even extra body weight without being in foal contributes to changes in her soundess...much less adding to it. She is a pasture ornament and a babysitter with no expectations, so this works ok for me.



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