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PAF question

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » PAF question « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

L Detweiler
Neonate
Username: Msfarab

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 08:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos & Others,
We have an outside mare being bred.
12 year old Arabian with past good foaling record, having a foal last season.
All of her work up (cytology & repro exam with U/S) was done prior to arrival and the mare owner's vet predicted when her next season would be which is when we picked her up and began teasing right away.

She was difficult to breed live cover as she was "Showing" every day, even to where she was "standing", but when presented to the stallion she was "scooting" and trying to wiggle out or kick him, as if she were a maidan, but had a foal last season.

She was not u/s during this period due to lack of Vet access on a regular basis unless we trailer to him.

As she progressed in this manner we tried to twitch and finally sedate for breeding which the stallion did manage to get in there 2 times, leaving a day between each cover, followed up with oxytocin protocol for 3 days post breeding.

She was u/s at 18 days, found to be pregnant, with recheck u/s at 30 days recommended. Owner lives a distance away and decided to keep her here for 30 day recheck, and it showed uterine tone of being pregnant but not finding the embryo, so our Vet suggested another recheck in 14 days.

We had the recheck yesterday. U/S showed a 65mm ovary, and a normal ovary on the other side. The Vet said there was luteal tissue there.

Reading your article on PAF:
"About 85% of PAF's do develop luteal tissue (which is the tissue that becomes present when a mare normally ovulates, that luteal tissue being contained within the corpus luteum or "CL") which is evidenced by the follicle showing a fully anechoic appearance on ultrasound, and elevated levels (>1 ng/ml) of progesterone. These may respond to treatment and resolve if a luteolitic dose of prostaglandin F2 is given. The remaining 15% however, which retain an anechoic appearance on ultrasound, will remain in situ despite all attempts to dislodge them - in some instances for as long as 100 days."

Question # 1

Is this what it sounds like we are dealing with ?


Question # 2
What exactly is "luteolitic dose of prostaglandin F2 is given" ?

Question # 3

Is there any benefit to giving any other hormones before the Protaglandin ?

The Vet suggested giving her hormone to make her ovulate then follow up with prostaglandin in 7 days.

Question # 4
Please forgive my lack of vet terminology.... what does "anechoic appearance on ultrasound"
look like ?

The Vet took a picture of this large ovary, but I don't have a copy of it yet.

The mare owner would like us to try to breed her mare again, with vet thinking she will come into a normal heat after getting the prostaglandin... will the mare come into a normal heat after this treatment of giving the Prostaglandin ?


When you mention 15% remain "in situ" despite attempts to dislodge them.... what eventually does resolve them ?
Lesley
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 938
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 09:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this what it sounds like we are dealing with ?

No. It is important to be aware that structures that are essentially PAF's normally may be present during pregnancy after about 40 days post-ovulation. You won't see them in all mares, but in some mares they happen. And that's normal.

What exactly is "luteolitic dose of prostaglandin F2 is given" ?

This is the normal dose of PGF2a that your veterinarian would prescribe to bring the mare into estrus (heat). In this case, it is unlikely to work, as once the mare has gone past about day 36 of pregnancy, the structures called "endometrial cups" form and these secrete another hormone (eCG) that will continue to cause the production of secondary CL's, keeping the mare out of estrus until the regression of the cups/CL's occur by about day 120-150. Use of PGF2a during this stage will therefore not result in the mare returning to estrus.

Is there any benefit to giving any other hormones before the Protaglandin ?

No. See above.

Please forgive my lack of vet terminology.... what does "anechoic appearance on ultrasound"
look like ?


Black areas. The center of a follicle for example is fluid filled, which will not reflect the ultrasound waves back to the transducer (probe), and is therefore termed "anechoic" and appear as a black area in the u/s image. Areas of solid tissue are echoic and appear as some level of grey scale image.

The mare owner would like us to try to breed her mare again, with vet thinking she will come into a normal heat after getting the prostaglandin... will the mare come into a normal heat after this treatment of giving the Prostaglandin ?

If the mare lost the pregnancy after the point where she formed the endometrial cups, then she is not going to return to estrus until she is ready no matter what you do. If your veterinarian believes that she lost the pregnancy after 35 days, and is recommending use of PGF2a to bring the mare back into estrus, you might want to consult with another vet before doing anything more.

When you mention 15% remain "in situ" despite attempts to dislodge them.... what eventually does resolve them ?

Time. :-)
 

L Detweiler
Neonate
Username: Msfarab

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 08:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos,
Thanks for the answers. Is it at all possible the Vet is not seeing the pregnancy, as she "could" still be pregnant with the ovary this size? He was checking her at 30 days the last time and said her "tone" looked like she was pregnant and not finding the embryo.

I did not give her any drugs yet, until we know what we are dealing with, in case she is pregnant after all.
Lesley
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 944
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you have any doubts, a second opinion is always valuable. Vets have been known to miss a pregnancy on occasion...

Note that use of prostaglandin at this stage is quite likely not to have any effect as far as bringing her back in to heat unless she was not pregnant after about 30 days.

If it were my mare, I'd do some more checking.



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