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Kicking Mare

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Kicking Mare « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Carmen
Neonate
Username: Windwood3

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had a mare come in on day 3 of her estrus, teased her, not hot hot, but willing, so we prepared her, presented the stallion and got the job done, no problem. She came back the 4th day and we put her in the teasing stall, she squeeled and struck, and was more interested in eating. We continued to tease her, she broke down, so we prepared her, and sent her to the breeding area, when the stallion was presented she stood, let him touch her, talk to her, but when he went up to mount she fired off with both hind legs and caught him in the chest. I sedated and twitched the mare, we presented him 2 more times, both times she was having no part of it. What else should I have done or could have done to get this job completed.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 921
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The first point to consider before addressing your actual question, is that unless the stallion has fertility issues, there is no advantage to breeding every day - indeed, there is a potential for distinct disadvantage, as it will increase pathogenic presence in the mares uterus, and exacerbate uterine immune response. In some mares this can result in a lowered pregnancy rate. Breeding every other day is perfectly adequate as long as the stallion has standard fertility.

So now to your question: Probably the next step in the game plan would have been to determine if in fact further breeding was required. This could have been done with an ultrasound examination of the ovaries. If ovulation was detected, then there was no need to breed again.

It is important to consider that not all mares display to stallions throughout their entire estrus - some only accept them on the day of ovulation. This really cannot be determined save by several ultrasounds to evaluate follicular condition. It sounds as though this mare might have been one of those though.
 

Carmen
Neonate
Username: Windwood3

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, the mare owner was the one wanting to cover her everyday. I personally tried to talk her out of it but......and she was not US so who knows. I have discussed this with the owner and told her IF we have this mare back, she needs to be checked prior to coming to make sure she is where we want her to be in her estrus so my stallion doesn't get hurt.
I hope you are right and (by accident) we caught her on the day of ovulation. :0)
 

cathy Cook
Weanling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 41
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The more times a mare is covered the dirtier she becomes inside. Tell the mare owner it is to his advantage to cover her fewer times and use drugs to induce ovulation. Most of the time in thoroughbreds we only get one shot per heat cycle so we are forced to predict.
 

Carmen
Neonate
Username: Windwood3

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I totally agree. However my contract states I will cover a mare up to 6 times, so, they are quite convinced they want to get 6 covers so they get the most bang for thier bucks! I don't understand, but she isn't scheduled to come back this year. I have until next spring to revise my contract with them. Plus they will need to have her US prior to coming and I really would like the vet on the premises just to assess the situation and do what ever is necessary. How much can the stallion owner dictate to the mare owner what can and can't happen. If they don't want the expense of US can I refuse to breed the mare, just based on that? It isn't that important to me to get this particular mare in foal to my stallion, it would be nice, she is perfectly bred for him, but......I will not let him get beat up. Now having said all that.....we bred him last night to one of our mares, and I have to tell you, he was much easier to breed. Maybe being kicked taught him a lesson. He is usually very excited and would mount to quickly, last night, he romanced her a bit, and was a bit reluctant to mount, but she stepped into him an that was all it took.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 927
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's your stallion, so you always have the option to not breed a mare. It is a good policy to have that option in print in your contract - many do - and in the event that you elect not to breed a mare, you will typically be expected to refund all monies related to the stud fee.
 

cathy Cook
Weanling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 42
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can always tell a fib and say you have several mares to breed so they will need to consult a vet to get the exact breeding date needed cause you in fact will not and can not cover that many mares in that time period.
 

Megan A Brown
Breeding Stock
Username: Fabmeg

Post Number: 176
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Make sure you put some language in about only breeding during a standing heat. Have had mares who ultrasound breedable, but will not stand, even sedated. With out the AI option, there is a real possibility of getting kicked. If you spend the cash on a breeding work up for you stud every year you can give them a ball park of how long his seamen should be mobile, that you can include a basis for an every other day policy.
 

Carmen
Neonate
Username: Windwood3

Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 02:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks everyone. This is the first breeding year for this stallion and he has been wonderful. He has 2 mares confirmed in foal. I plan to have a workup done on him before the next breeding season, as well as phantom training, I did not expect to cover an outside mare this year and I wish it would have worked out, she is really a nice mare, but I don't want him to get hurt. I will re-read my contract and see where and what I can say about refusing mares. Again thanks everyone!
 

cathy Cook
Weanling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 43
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The best thing to do contract wise is request contracts on stallions from some of the larger farms in your breed and copy them. Don't tell them what you are doing just act interested in their studs.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 933
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 11:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I suspect that stallion owners reading this will be more than a little distressed at that suggestion...! You may, before doing that, want to consider that those contracts are in fact copyrighted, and that plagiarism of them will technically be a copyright infringement that the stallion owner would have every right to pursue.

The best thing therefore is to consult a lawyer that specialises in equine contract law and pay them to write a contract that will be applicable for your own set of circumstances. You can then advertise your stallion knowing that you have a suitable breeding contract for your situation, and people can contact you showing interest in breeding to your stallion and you can provide them with the contract, and they can then go off and plagiarise it to their hearts content for their own use, and not have to worry about paying a lawyer to do it for them...

You get my point, I'm sure...
 

Carmen
Neonate
Username: Windwood3

Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, I like the contract that was specifically written up for my farm by our attorney but do need to re-word things so that the kicking mare can get the boot......
 

cathy Cook
Weanling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 45
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes I get your point but it is still done daily shoot I have done it. Don't copy them just take the best parts from various contracts and save the lawyer fee.



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