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Breeding an aggressive mare.

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Breeding an aggressive mare. « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Jewelz Beckinson
Neonate
Username: Jewelzqh

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 03:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 16 year old AQHA mare who has had at least one other foal (about 8 years ago, no foaling complications, to the best of my knowledge) possibly more foals. She is very much in heat.

The problem is, she is also, very much aggressive -- to the point where the breeder is concerned for his stallion. We tried various methods of "letting them work through it," figuring she'd calm down and let him do his job eventually. She did calm down, and he'd get about half-way over her before she'd start kicking again.

We talked about hobbles, but if there is a less stressful way to do this, than I'm all for it. This mare had an abusive home (that I witnessed the treatment of) back when I leased her almost 9 years ago. She's the type that the more you re-strain her, the more she fights (which is interesting considering her otherwise sweet disposition - until you take into consideration pieces of her past).

Also, she hadn't been trailored anywhere in over a year; so, she was stressed when we reached the barn where she was to be bred. She teased very well though, and the breeder didn't waste much time in what I'm starting to think might have needed to be time to get settled and adjusted to new surroundings.

Additional info: the breeder and I have talked about collecting semen while we have them both at the vet (because his stud goes into to do collections on a regular basis), but I, while being raised around horse breeders, am only 23, and admittedly lacking in what it would take for my horse if we chose this option.

Thanks for any advice!
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 140
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jewelz:

I have to wonder why you want to breed such an aggressive mare. If this was my mare, I would not breed her to any stallion. In my opinion and from what I have seen in mares with foals, the mare teaches and the foal learns from the mother her initial behaviors. If the mare is skiddish, the foal will also be skiddish, if the mare is mean and kicks and bites, the foal will also learn to kick and bite. If the mare is hard to handle, the foal will also learn these behaviors as it learns from its mother's behaviors.
Since your mare was abused, she has learned these behaviors which will be passed on to her foal. You could very well end up with two badly behaved mares down the road a few years.

As for the stallion. If it was my stallion I would not breed by hand or pasture. Many people now, in fact, all those stallion owners I know, use AI since they do not want to take any risk with their stallions being kicked. One good kick from an angry mare could kill an expensive stud or cause such damage from a broken leg or crushed throat, that the stud would have to be put down.

I would rethink your decision to breed this mare... is it so you can get a foal, or are the bloodlines exceptional? There are many exceptional horses out there that when crossed with an exceptional stallion move the breed forward on the bases of conformation, temperment, color, bloodlines, pedigree etc... and unfortunately, there are many many more average horses out there that are bred just for the sake of wanting a foal, that do nothing to improve the quality of the breed.

I guess what I am trying to say is... really think about why you want to breed this mare, and what the possible outcomes may be. Good luck in whatever decision you make.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 903
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are a variety of reasons for the described behaviour in a mare, and I would not immediately assume that it is something that could be hereditary. It is a very common response in some mares when faced with a stallion, and one possibility is that it may be linked to low estrogen levels (estrogen is secreted from the follicle and encourages sumbissive response to the stallion).

The simplest option is going to be have your vet attend at the time of breeding and arrange a suitable combination of tranquilisers and physical restraint such as a twitch.

The next possibility that will be the safest, but probably more expensive, would be to collect the semen and inseminate the mare. There are quite a few articles in the articles section of this web site that will help you with information on that.

Another possibility that may work has been demonstrated and reported on by Squires et. al. and that is to use some estradiol cypionate (ECP) early in the estrus stage of the cycle. This can encourage the receptive behaviour if the issue is related to the low levels I commented on above. Again, your vet will hopefully be able to assist you there.
 

Michelle Towers
Neonate
Username: Montana1

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know this post is a year or so old i'd love to know the outcome i have a younger QH mare with the same issue - i own the stllion and he is going to get himself seriously hurt one day. We are going to try hobbles tommorrow - hopefully she doesnt stress too much but the vet says shes fine so theres only one way for it really - as we can't afford and don't have the facilities for AI. We are just a small breeder who wants to put there own mare in foal to our own stallion. Like your mare this one has a duboius past but can be a real sweet mare with humans and doesnt kick or bite other mares. The only time she can be funny with people is at dinner time and when being wormed!! So if you read this please tell me what the outcome was - this mare has had 1 foal some time ago and was AI'd in 2005 only to reabsorb 3 months later. Cheers
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1305
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 10:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Be aware that some mares can still kick with hobbles on - maybe not quite as hard, but sometimes still hard enough...

Can't afford AI? It doesn't have to be expensive to get set up - typically under $1,000 for on-farm AI - and I'm guessing you would consider your stallion worth more than $1,000, and your stud fee is probably in that region (or perhaps two stud fees), so can you afford not to if faced with dangerous mares that either may injure your stallion, or you can't get bred (so no stud fee)?
 

Michelle Towers
Neonate
Username: Montana1

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL thanks for the post Jos much appreciated Though we are in the UK where horses are typically more expensive than in the USA and we keep our stallion and mare at a friends property. Horse properties go for around 500,000 here thats 1million dollars and we don't have that much cash. So we wouldn't be able to set up an AI facility at someone elses farm - our only option would be to send our stallion away to someone elses breeding centre to stand elsewhere but as he's shown every other weekend this is a problem and we do not commercially breed. We only cover a handfull of outside mares.
We did consider sending him the the AI centre to collect some semen which would have cost 900 ($1800) and then we'd have to get the mare to the vets and inseminate her which would cost roughly 300 ($600) and thats just for one time it all adds up doesnt it? With setting oursleves up over here you have to have an AI technicians qualification which costs 500 ($1000) to get, so everything becomes expensive and all for just one horse.
We tried to cover her again today both mare and stallion well armoured so to speak and the mare was tranqualised rather than using hobbles as i just thought that she'd stress more with hobbles on, in the end. We didnt get the job done same problem happened again even though she was doped she teases real well and stands for him to lick and chew he takes a step up and she double barrells him! We called it quits and put her on the market today - shes best off with someone else who can afford AI who doesnt have the added costs for the stallion too. Hopefully someone will take her as this is her only real problem she's sweet to handle, sometimes a pain to catch but thats all! Very frustrating.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1308
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michelle, is there any chance that she was already bred and is pregnant? Some mares will show estrus during pregnancy, but then get resistant when the stallion actually gets to the point of mounting...
 

Michelle Towers
Neonate
Username: Montana1

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I doubt it Jos we've owned her since October and i don't think she had access to a stallion back then - surely if she had we'd be seeing some signs by now. Wouldn't it be lovely if that were true lol! Solve many problems. Luckily since then we've had a lot of interest in her from people who only want to do AI. Fingers crossed we'll sell her. Thanks anyway.
 

Tracy Smith
Neonate
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 08:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone, I have a question regarding a pony mare of mine. She is a 3 yr old maiden about 13 hands. She shares a fence line with our stallion when in turnout and will usually ignore him. When she goes in heat she will back up to the fence, squatting, urinating, definitely interested! She can hardly walk when this goes on! Anyway, this yr we decided to breed her to my 14.1 hand Arabian stallion, teased her beforehand and showed obvious signs (urinating all over herself). When my stallion approached her(we are hand breeding) she become visibly nervous turning around in circles and trying to keep her head facing him. He was extremely sweet, talking to her and not rushing but as soon as he would try to mount she would try to kick him. I immediately put an end to the session since I'm not interested in getting my stallion hurt. We tried the next couple of days and same reaction every time. We tried the next heat cycle and same thing. She doesn't seem nervous of him at all when he teases her through the fence but as soon as we try to breed her it all changes. I've quit for the year but I'm wondering for next yr if anyone has any ideas. I'm not a big hobbles fan but was thinking of twitching her. I'm just so confused because I have never seen such a standing heat before that changed so dramatically when the time came, any ideas? Thanks!!
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 356
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the mare is very difficult use tranquilizer if not just use a leg rope and release it once he is inside her. We also do not breed anything without using a twitch.
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 268
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi
We had exactly the same problem today..a maiden mare was obviously in season but got scared when the stallion approached her (despite still showing the signs during all this)
We had a leg rope and put a twitch on her...i think she was just nervous and unsure...she was sucessfully bred and has continued to show heat i think it was the right time but she needed a little help!!
 

Tracy Smith
Neonate
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 04:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks guys! Like I said, we are done for the year but I will definitely try the twitch and leg rope next time. Saffron, let me know if your mare was easier the next time you breed her. Hopefully once they do it, all goes well for future breedings!
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 269
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 02:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tracy I will..we will try again tomorrow, i hope she will be easier, i hate it when they are scared but we need to get the job done and i am sure she will be more relaxed next time!
 

Emma
Breeding Stock
Username: Emma

Post Number: 179
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 06:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A few years back we had a couple of young maiden's (3 & 4 yo's) they were the same as the above maiden's and we just twitched them. We also have a breeding crush which helps with maiden mares beyond belief and keeps all humans safe. We breed outside maiden mares each year and find about 60% to be difficult but with the use of our crush, a twitch and our experianced stallion we get the job done with minimum fuss. As to your question about re serving. We try to only cover each mare once or twice a cycle and are very succesfull (so generally don't have to cover again) but we have found mares that have returned the year after for another breeding who were maidens the year before are much easier to serve. We like to call it experiance :-)
 

Desert Fire Arabians
Neonate
Username: Desertfirearabians

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 09:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 6 yr maiden mare. we bred her on the 2nd day of heat and she showed all the signs of being receptive. she moved around a bit because she was nervous but once he was in her she stood.
we tried breeding her last night and she will not stand for him. she's still showing full heat and will let him up to her but when he goes to mount her she moves foward and trys to run me over to get away from him. she does not try to kick just trys to get away. what can I do do get her to stop so we can get her covered?
 

Carol K
Weanling
Username: Rodawn

Post Number: 25
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She sounds like the original breeding may have scared her. Any chance you can put her in with the stallion? Is he gentle with the mare? If he is a gentle, patient stallion, putting her inside the pasture with him might help her get over her fear. If, however, he is noisy, impatient and wanting to get on with it, you should consider collecting with a dummy and inserting the semen yourself.
 

Carol K
Weanling
Username: Rodawn

Post Number: 26
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another idea - Friends of ours built a breeding wall. The front wall is about 4-1/2 feet high and 8 feet wide. About 2 feet in, build a wall outwards (like a lopsided T), about 6 feet long, same height. You position yourself to stay clear of the stallion's hooves. Stand the mare on the big side of the T at a slight angle so she is facing the corner. The mare can then use the wall to brace herself to support herself. A stallion's body weight is pretty shocking to a maiden mare and she might have been afraid she couldn't hold him. One of the stallions at our friend's farm used to put his front hooves on the top of the wall and so he braced himself too. But he also liked to drape on the mare like a jelly fish after the deed. Their mares seemed to prefer being bred with the wall rather than standing free, but it does take some training for them to get used to it.
 

Baraaks_Storm
Weanling
Username: Baraaks_storm

Post Number: 30
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a, well she's not a maiden in the real way but she's never conceived, she is aggressive to my stallion when he's trying to breed. I learned to twitch her and put a winter blanket on her before he could mount her. She'd kick like mad if she does not have a blanket on her, even if she's twitched, drugged, or hobbled. But the blanket made the difference to her.

She's my favorite horse in all aspects as breeding, looks, and personality but she is a very dominate older mare and what she says goes. The only time she is aggressive is breeding time or my stud gets too hot for his own good. I mostly keep them pastured together tho and they are fine any other time.

The blanket has worked wonders for myself and I now use it every time to keep her happy.



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