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Pregnant or not?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Pregnant or not? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Anonymous
 
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I took my mare to get bred at the nearest AI vet which is 3hrs (one way) from me. When I arrived there two other mares were getting ultrasounded and were told not pregnant. Not exactly encouraging but I thought I would go ahead and breed her this cycle anyhow as the next nearest vet (who I have used in the past and is good) was double that distance.
I had given her a shot to come into heat and she was due in anyday. Two days later she came into heat and progressed through a normal heat cycle and was bred post-ovulation with frozen semen (I have been told it was within 6hrs post ovulation). A week later my friends mare that also had a textbook heat cycle breeding (frozen) was checked not in foal. So they were going to try a second cycle with her. According to the vet her second cycle was really wierd and she was literally only in standing heat for 2hrs! But they bred her and I will know next week if she is in foal or not. Something wierd was definatly going on.
Anyways, back to my mare. She had her 14 day preg check last Tuesday (June 27th)and I was told she was not in foal and did not look like she was coming into heat right away. So I decided to now switch to a fresh cooled breeding to a stallion closer to me. I was due to pick her up on the Saturday so had her ultrasounded Friday to find out where she was at and when I needed to order semen (now 17 days after her last ovulation). A different vet had checked her and said she would be due to be bred in approx 4-5 days so I assumed she must be starting to come into heat. I didn't have much of a chance to talk to her as she was dealing with an emergency. Well it has been 3 days since that vet checked her and there is absolutely no sign she is coming into heat (I have a stallion to tease her to and she is normally VERY obvious). Tomorrow morning will be 21 days since she last ovulated and we will continue to tease her.
I guess my question is can horses have really eratic heat cycles? Could she be pregnant and TWO different vets miss it?? I think the firs vet mentioned something about a mid cycle follicle?? How long should I continue to tease her for? I would have to haul her quite a ways again to have her ultrasounded if I wanted to check her but I don't know if it is worth my time or not. Thanks for any advice and I am going to talk to the vet tomorrow to try and get more info.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10815
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

  1. If the mare underwent Early Embryonic Death (EED) her cycle could be thrown off schedule;
  2. Mares bred with frozen semen are sometimes seen to have a tendency towards undersized embryos during the early embryonic period, lagging behind in diameter by a couple of days. Hence at a 14 day check, it might only be a 12-day size; and at 17 days only 15. This can cause confusion among persons unfamiliar with the phenomena;
  3. Pregnancies are missed via ultrasound. More so by some than others.
 

Anonymous
 
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 09:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos, should I continue to tease her and if so for how long? If she doesn't come into heat I will have her re-ultrasounded to check for a pregnancy, but I would like to wait for a bit yet as it is a long trip.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10817
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 09:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By day 26, if the mare has not come back into estrus, there is a 90% chance that she is in foal. Consequently, if you keep teasing through to day 26, you will be 90% accurate.
 

Cindy
Neonate
Username: Vanity

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos, I am trying not to get my hopes up but I would be ecstatic if she was. I know the main vet mentioned that it was pushing it for her to see a 14 day embryo on her ultrasound. The second vet that checked her I don't think had much experience in the field. And as you mentioned if the embryo looked even smaller than a "normal" 14 day, maybe she had trouble seeing it. So I will keep my fingers crossed that just maybe...I will let you know in a few days how things are going. Thanks again!
 

Graciela
Nursing Foal
Username: Graciela

Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 07:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, after reading this - would it be best to wait a few extra days to check a mare that was bred via frozen semen? My mare will be 14 days post breeding Monday. Maybe I should wait until the end of the week?
 

Cindy
Neonate
Username: Vanity

Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 12:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Update, my mare did come back into heat on day 21. So I am assuming maybe she had EED. Not sure but she will be rebred later this week.
 

cathy Cook
Weanling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 38
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mares don't come in until 21 or 22 days post ovulation, that is normal.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 890
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The interovulatory period is - on average - 21 days, not diestrus. In other words, the time from ovulation to ovulation is on average 21 days, not the time between "heats". The time between "heats" (diestrus) is - again on the average - about 14 days. That is the time from when the mare stops displaying to the stallion until she starts displaying again.

There will always be exceptions, but having all mares have a 21 day diestrus period is definitely not normal. In Cindy's case EED is a definite possibility.

There is an article that discusses the mare cycle and hormones in more detail available by following that link.
 

Cindy
Neonate
Username: Vanity

Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well the mare in my original post has now been confirmed pregnant at her 21day ultrasound. Yeah!

Next question is regarding a different mare. I bred both this mare and the other mare above via fresh cooled. I do not have access to an ultrasound so I inseminated them day 3 and day 5 of their heat cycle. This mare was out of heat late day 5 early day 6. I teased her back to the stallion starting day 14 post breeding. Today (day 21 post breeding) I hauled her the 6hr round trip for an ultrasound as she had not come back into heat. When the vet ultrasounded her she had a small follicle (just under 3cm) but she could not find an embryo. However, she did find something at the base of her uterus (possibly an embryo?) but could not definately say if it was a pregnancy or not. She says she does have uterine cysts so thought it could possibly be a cyst. She also said it looked smaller than a normal embryo should be so if it was an embryo she is possibly reabsorbing it, or that it was perhaps hidden and she was not seeing the whole thing? So I am bit frustrated (not at the vet) but the fact that I drove 6hrs and still don't have an answer. I don't have access to a stallion full time for teasing so I cannot continue teasing for the next 9 days when stallion owner is away on holidays. What are the chances the embryo is partially hiding and we are not seeing if fully? The vet had a VERY hard time getting a clear picture of her uterus to start with (gas and full bladder were in the way). I find it odd that she has not come back into heat and if she is growing another follicle probably will not come back in for close to another week which would put her around 28 days post breeding. I cringe to think that I will have to drive another 6hr round trip to find an answer, even more so because she has a foal at her side.
 

maxine clough
Neonate
Username: Kiaraapple

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i had my mare brought into season last september (she has not had a season since), brought her home and had her scanned the vet could not see anything in there so gave me a negative, i took her back to the stallion she was stabled inbetween two stallion and did not comme back into season, all she did was scream at them day and night after three weeks of this i brought her back home and arranged for the vet to come and do ablood test, he siad it would take 7 -10 days before we would have the results so i was suprized to recieve a phone two days later to say it was negative.
kiara has under gone many changes since she has been covered includingan expandingtummy which is now very low so i am assuming that i recieved a double negative on her testing or is it possible for a miaden mare to have a phantom?
anythoughts on this



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