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Mare appears in heat after insemination

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Mare appears in heat after insemination « Previous Next »


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Rebecca
Neonate
Username: Bexxy

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare was inseminated on the 14th July by chilled within 12hours of ovulation. (this appears a lot later than those in US but perfectly normal time here in UK). I have counted 17 days post ovulation (to include 2 days following ovulation).

We teased her accordingly and she showed no interest and squealed and lashed out with her front legs. On the 17th day we tried her with a boy we know she very much likes, she wasn't too interested however she squirted a tiny amount. We have teased everyday since for two days a tiny squirt (tablespoon) and a wink and then today nothing. All through she has lost interest very quickly and lashed out and squealed a lot.

Usually she floods the place and is a complete tart flirting with the boys. Tomorrow is day 21. I will get her scanned in a couple of weeks but would like opinions if you think she might be in foal. She has bred once before by chilled and took first time (this wad first time as we can't ride her anymore and thought we would have one try this year). The stallion is very firtile with 70% in foal first insemination. Thanks!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3375
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's useless playing the "do you think she's in foal" game. If you want to know, you need to have her ultrasounded. You should do that anyway between 14 and 16 days post-ovulation to rule out the possibility of twins.
 

Rebecca
Neonate
Username: Bexxy

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 06:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you. I think when I saw her squirt I thought she definitely couldnt be in foal. I called the stud to tell them and they advised me this can happen and that I should scan her either way....(i wasnt going to if she was in heat) Have I missed the optimum time for twin scanning, near day 22 post ovulation?

Thank you so much for this, I am sure my vet thinks I am completely paranoid
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3376
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you follow the link I gave in my reply above, that is to an article about twinning.

One ideally wants to identify twins prior to 16 days, as fixation occurs around that point, and it can be difficult to pinch one off if it is placed adjacent to the other conceptus. The best rate of success for pinching is achieved prior to 16 days, and by day 22, if you have twins, the success rate of maintaining even one pregnancy following pinching off of one of the pregnancies is significantly diminished. :-(
 

Rebecca
Neonate
Username: Bexxy

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok so we got her scanned today, day 22. Our normal vet that does the AI is away so another vet (not so used to doing the AI) came up to scan her. He felt by hand first and said he thought it was looking good. When he came to do the ultrasound he struggled as she kept pushing against him. Looking at the ultrasound he wasn’t sure if she was pregnant. Basically he couldn’t tell if it was just fluid or not as it wasn’t a really clearly round shape. He did say it could just be the angle he was looking at it………. He left it that the other vet would rescan in two weeks…. ……..he did mention that the other vet would be doing a few rescans on his return…………
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3379
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh for.....

Check this article out with reference to "roundness" of the conceptus by day 22...

I hope they won't be charging you for both calls and ultrasounds!!!

<sigh>
 

Rebecca
Neonate
Username: Bexxy

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 04:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you so much, I was left feeling rather confused! He said from certain angles he could "see a White bit" and there were no new follicles either..... Definitely no twins anyway! I am a more confidant than I was earlier, the next scan is the 16th.....

I am sure I will have to pay tho.... . Again I can't thank you enough, you have been so helpful!
 

Rebecca
Neonate
Username: Bexxy

Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 04:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos, just thought I would give you an update. Finally got an answer, yes she is pregnant! Very pleased. Apparently it has implanted really far over so he had to search for it for a while....

Thanks so much for your help! :-)
 

Rebecca
Neonate
Username: Bexxy

Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 04:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry just thinking, when he says "really far over" (hopefully this will mean something to you?) could this cause any problems later on? My vets seem to be very cryptic...... it took him ages to find it too...
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3404
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They're still full of bullhooey... :-(

The conceptus is going to be in the uterus. The uterus is between the ovaries. If you can scan the ovaries, there is no reason you cannot scan the uterus. If you can scan the uterus, there is no reason you cannot scan the conceptus. During a pregnancy check, the entire uterus MUST be scanned. By day 22 the conceptus is going to be located in most instances at the corpus-cornual junction, which is the horn just to the left or right of the body of the uterus. It should not be located in a horn (although I will grant you that in rare cases it might be), but even if it is, as the entire uterus is scanned, it should be easily identified. If it is far up in the horn, it either has not yet fixed and is still mobile, or is a likely candidate for subsequent loss (in the pretty near future, so you are probably past that point - plus seeing as they apparently haven't got a freaking clue what they're talking about, I'd take the whole thing with a grain of salt!!).

Oh, and a conceptus doesn't "implant", but "fixes" in case they used that phraseology rather than you... :-)

Your vet's not cryptic, [s]he's incompetent at reproduction. They still owe you the cost of at least one added scan as a result of incompetency...
 

Rebecca
Neonate
Username: Bexxy

Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos, thank you, they make you fee stupid too (well mine certainly did anyway!). Where i live we only have one vet that is a qualified AI technician so am pretty limited with the vet i can use and it would cost me an arm and a leg to ship the mare to the nearest reproduction centre! ...... So there should be nothing for me to worry about (i hope :-) ) She is two months now or there abouts.... I do think they have a cover their ass policy!!!

He certainly didnt mention the horn... if it were is this a big problem? The only thing I can think is that their scanner is old (they used the same one when i bred from her the first time over 7 years ago and I am certain it was old then!!!)

The vet wanted to come back and do an October scan too (my stud terms are NFFR) and the stud owner was against this as this is generally only done for October stud terms and is invasive and costly. I am inclined to go with the stud owner who is a very experienced breeder.... would you agree?

Thanks again for your help! :-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3405
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no aversion to ultrasounding during pregnancy, but - particularly given the [in]competency levels of the ultrasonographers here - I see no particular advantage to doing one in this situation.



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