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Heat and Lutalyse

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Heat and Lutalyse « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 174
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 07:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a continuation of the saga under Pregnancy or Cyst. I gave the Lutalyse at the time directed by my vet. Luckily, we were taking her to the stud the very next day (yesterday). BTW, I did read the article about why short cycling sometimes doesn't work. Very interesting.

I get her there and when she sees the stud come up to the fence she acts very much in heat. The owner pasture breeds, so they were put together. She looked like she would stand for breeding. The stud, who is definitely an oldster, checked out the situation, but did not drop or mount. His owner says that he usually won't drop unless he is convinced there is an ovulation upcoming. I doubt most studs are so discriminating. So we are hopeful that she will really ovulate in a few days.

I saw that it is possible for the shot to bring them in faster if there was a greater than 3 cm follicle.

So am I likely looking at a heat cycle that the shot brought on, or some kind of mid-cycle thing? Or was my vet wrong about where she was in her heat cycle?

It's very hot, even in Michigan, which is where she went. I don't really blame the stud for not wanting to breed at the time of day it was. He's an old man. Can a stud really sense when a mare is about to ovulate?

Lori
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3364
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Having collected semen off breeding mounts from many stallions that "only drop/breed when the mare is close to ovulation" I am a little skeptical of those claims... :-)

As far as what is going on with your mare, only an ultrasound will tell you that for sure.
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 175
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL Oh, I wish they would collect him!

But they are going to make sure in a hand breeding type situation that he does at least atempt to breed her this cycle, but then again, if he's not that interested, well, what can you do? I think they could give him some bute. He's old and does have a big hock on him after all these years of being a breeding stallion. Maybe he doesn't want to breed unless he is totally sure of her. Or would rather breed her in hand so she doesn't totally walk off on him.

Lori
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3365
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 03:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My first concern in a situation like this is was the mare actually pregnant? (And missed on preg. check). Around 10% of pregnant mares will display estrus-like behaviour, but most will cease to be as receptive if the stallion actually goes to mount = although this is one situation where a good percentage of stallions recognise that the mare is pregnant and don't pursue the matter beyond initial teasing.

The only thing is that if this was the case here, if the mare was given prostaglandin up to about 30 days post-breeding-ovulation, she will probably lose the pregnancy if she was indeed pregnant... :-(
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 176
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos,

There is no worry there. This is the first time she has seen a stallion this year. We were just late getting her up there.

Lori
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3366
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good. Well, stallion comfort is a worthy consideration, so a little 'bute may be of value. Bear in mind too that not all mares like all stallions and vice versa, so it may just be that he doesn't find her "cute"...!
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 177
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess that would be he doesn't find her cute anymore. He did last year and in 2006. Tastes do change.

Lori
 

Breeder
Neonate
Username: Mdibooks

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2011
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 09:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lori:
First, If the stallion owner tells you that the stallionj will not breed unless ovulation is iminent, beware. I know our stud will breed at any time during the cycle and even after ovulation if you can get her to stand. Jos makes a good point, if they will jump a dummy you know it is not going to ovulate. Maybe the easy fix here is to change stallions.
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 179
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Switching stallions has crossed my mind, but this guy is really what I'd like to get while he's still alive.

BTW, she does not seem to have returned to estrus at an appropriate time from the shot given to her Monday. She acted like she was in when she first got there which was less than 24 hours from the shot, but now we think maybe that was submission.

So now what will happen with her cycle? Will it be another 3 weeks or might it be sooner when she has a real heat?

Lori
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3369
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Take a look at this article which should explain the likelihood of what happened.
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 180
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"if the follicles are <3 cm, ovulation will usually occur about 9.5 days after treatment."

So should I expect her to come into estrus in a couple more days?

I gave the shot as directed by my vet last Monday. It is unlikely that she ovulated overnight, isn't it? She seemed rather convincing to everyone but the stallion when she arrived. Well, even he teased her.

I just don't know what to expect now as far as when she might cycle. They said she hasn't shown anymore since she first got there.

Lori
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3370
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What the article is saying is that if there is a follicle present on the ovary at the time of treatment that is >2 cm, a rapid onset of estrus and ovulation may occur. If the follicle is >3 cm in diameter at the time of treatment, it is possible that mare may come into estrus in a few hours and ovulate within 24 hours after the treatment.

If you don't know what was on the ovary when you gave the Prostaglandin F then you cannot reliably predict the response.



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