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Trouble Getting Mare Bred

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Trouble Getting Mare Bred « Previous Next »


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Nicole Norton
Neonate
Username: Hg_stables

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is my first time every trying to breed a mare, and everything is really confusing.

I sent my mare to the stallion last month. Before she went my vet had me give her a shot of Estrumate, and nothing happened. They had me wait 7 days and gave her another dose and she went into heat. She was bred every day for 8 days. and Stayed in heat for 9-10 days. The vet said the breeder over bred her when they came and did a pregnancy US. She is not in foal and they said they see a little fluid in her Uterus which could be an infection.

I gave my mare Estrumate again last night per vets orders. They want to Culture her tomorrow yet they still want me to send her to the stallion before results come in. Dose this make sense? Once at the stud farm they want her bred right away, then within hours after being bred I am to give her a shot that causes her to Ovulate I think it is called HCG. And they want her bred 2-3 more times after.

What if my mare has an infection and she is being bred before they get results? Can they treat this while she's being bred? Will she still get pregnant?

No one knows if she is maiden or not. She just turned 15 years old and is very fit and healthy she is a show horse.

I'd really appreciate some input.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3278
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 09:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are several points here to be addressed, and I will do it in bullet form:
  • There is an article on this site that will explain why prostaglandin didn't work (Estrumate is a form of prostaglandin);
  • Make sure that you get a uterine swab cytology smear performed in conjunction with the culture. A culture alone is useless, and furthermore a cytology smear will take only about 5-10 minutes to perform and give you a result on, which will actually tell you with greater certainty if there is something irritating your mare's uterus (and if she should therefore not be bred this cycle).
  • Your vet is right - there is no need to breed a mare every day. She was overbred. Healthy fresh sperm last 48-72 hours in the uterus if the stallion is fertile. Consequently, breeding every other day is perfectly adequate. Increasing the number of times she's bred will increase the inflammatory response in the uterus and the amount of potential pathogens introduced.
  • It would seem illogical not to give the hCG at the time of breeding, as long as there is a 35 mm or greater follicle present (there are other hormones - Deslorelin and Histrelin - that will cause a response in smaller diameter follicles as well). One has to question the knowledge level and tactics of the stallion farm based upon what you have indicated...
  • In the event that the mare is found to be infected, the ability to treat and breed on the same cycle will depend to some extent upon what the identified pathogen is. In some cases it is perfectly practical, in other cases not. Start by having the cytology smear created and read - it will give you a good idea as to how to proceed. If there are inflammatory cells present, then further exploration is required and breeding on this cycle is probably not desirable.
Follow the links to the article that I've given above. Feel free to print off the articles and discuss them with your vet or the breeding farm - they are articles that are used by Veterinary and Agricultural Universities and Vet Practices world wide, so hopefully they will help.
 

Nicole Norton
Neonate
Username: Hg_stables

Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How long dose it take for a cytology smear to come back? The mare really needs to take and fast it is getting late to be breeding. The vet told me to send her to the stallion even before results so I am unsure how the infection could effect the breeding?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3280
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If your veterinarian is competent, they should be able to do it in about 10 minutes. It is a very simple process and there is no reason why it needs to be sent to the lab (other than it being a veterinarian that is not competent at equine reproduction). All it requires is a differential stain kit, microscope slide, and microscope, plus paper towel and water. The swabbing process is the same as for a culture swab, although one gets a better result using a cytology brush and swab (the swab part allows a culture to be run off the same swab).
 

Nicole Norton
Neonate
Username: Hg_stables

Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok I will tell them when they come tomorrow morning that I want this test done. I won't take no for an answer. They told me the culture takes 1-2 days to grow and after reading the articles you posted it makes more sense to get the Cytology Smear done.

I will also make it very clear to the stallions owner my mare is not to be bred more than every other day.
 

Nicole Norton
Neonate
Username: Hg_stables

Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 09:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did a quick look over on the paper work they left me this is what they had written down for US results.

Date - 5/31/11
LO - CL
RO - 42mm
Edema - 1
Tone - 2
Fluid - 0

Comments - in disestrus. not pregnant
 

Nicole Norton
Neonate
Username: Hg_stables

Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They just re checked my mare today after having the estrumate shot they wanted to culture her and do the smear. Now she shows no signs of going into heat. This is really starting to tick me off.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3283
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you gave Estrumate on the 6th, which is what you indicated above, then expect onset of estrus 9-11th, as the average is 3-5 days after treatment.
 

Nicole Norton
Neonate
Username: Hg_stables

Post Number: 6
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand that but the thing is the Fol. that was 42mm is gone. They have no idea when she will come into heat now. Just don't get how that Fol. can disapear like that.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3286
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 11:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ahh... you didn't mention that above.

That's easy. She ovulated. I explained that in the "I gave my mare prostaglandin but it didn't work" article I linked to above.

Now you'll have to wait another 6 days and give more prostaglandin - but don't do it if there's a follicle present >2 cm in diameter as it is likely to ovulate rapidly. If you don't use prostaglandin again, then she'll come back into estrus ("heat") in about 12-14 days.
 

Nicole Norton
Neonate
Username: Hg_stables

Post Number: 7
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She's back in heat right now they did an US yesterday and she has a 30mm Fol and two smaller ones along with Edema and good tone. They want me to take her to the stallion tonight or tomorrow and after the first breeding give her hCG. Her culture and smear came back negative she is 100% Clear of any issues
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3294
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2011 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm... well, it seems that my prognosis of coming into estrus somewhere between the 9th and 11th was right on the money then... which indicates to me that there was no 42 mm follicle that disappeared. It's extremely unlikely that it would have regressed that rapidly, and if she had ovulated on it, then she would not be displaying estrus now. My guess is that it wasn't a single follicle, but a cluster and that the total measurement equalled 42, and they thought they were looking at a single follicle...

FWIW, tone is meant to decrease when the mare is in estrus, not be "good", so let's hope that they misinterpreted that rather than the amount of edema (which if not present would indicate a lack of estrus). You will know when the stallion tries to breed her though!!!

Good luck!
 

Nicole Norton
Neonate
Username: Hg_stables

Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I took her to the stallion Sunday (June 12th) And he bred her right away, she was VERY receptive. I gave her the shot it wasn't hCG but something newer. He has bred her every other day. Today she was not being very receptive to the stallion, she was starting to kick at him he still bred her but even after she was getting nasty to him. The breeder thinks she is coming out of heat. He is going to tease her tomorrow to see how she is doing. So I'm hoping this time she took!



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