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Treatment: Flushing and Oxytocin Older Infected Mare - Jos please read

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Treatment: Flushing and Oxytocin Older Infected Mare - Jos please read « Previous Next »


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Gypsy Cob
Neonate
Username: Gypsy_cob

Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2010
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 02:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*******History (known) for Bonnie:*******

Bonnie is an older maiden Clydesdale mare, I have her with me in the hopes of producing a foal and have only just met her so I can’t detail her past other than she was left with a stallion for a while and never produced a foal. Watching her when interacting with any of our stallions or colts she is actually a bit shy so would not surprise me if she was never covered with any success.

Bonnie does not show any signs of being in season away from colts or stallions, she is a typical heavy, very quiet about the whole thing but when given the choice will go and get as close to the young colts as possible and start showing, this is when I noticed her infection, she is visibally quite mucky with puss and pink diluted blood, further more she is a bit granually looking too. Foal or no foal for her own comfort she needs to be cleaned.


*******Treatment for Bonnie:*******

Day One: Flush mare first time with 1 ltr of Saline, drain into white bucket to see how mucky she is.
( possibly Flush a further time using 0.2% Betadine in 1 ltr Saline as per rates and methods for gram negative and positive bacteria).
When she is flushing clean, Infuse 40mls of Propercilin and 100mls of ***Manuka Honey*** into 1 ltr or Saline and leave in the mare.

Day Two and Three: As above, excluding Iodine possibly keep cleaning daily until
Day Five

SHOULD I BE TREATING WITH OXYTOCIN AT ANY TIME DURING THE ABOVE – IF SO WHEN EXACTLY?

I will not be breeding on the next cycle that I want to clean her up (next one). She was showing two days ago, is off now. (We missed any treatment this cycle as we need to finish building a mare crush that will actually fit these big mares in)
I want to PG her on Thursday to bring her back in, then again after the cycle that we flush PG her a second time.

Next cycle (after the lavage treatments on previous cycle) when should I commence Oxytocin treatment as I will plan to have her covered around about “day three” and keep everything crossed that I don’t have to cover again on “day five” is that right? and what else should I or shouldn’t I do?

(we really don’t have anyway of having her scanned unless a vet comes to her, due to where we live that’s not really a possibility and I can’t just put her on the float as she is not handled, she is quiet and manageable in the same way as our Jersey Cows are in the dairy, you can do what ever you want to her in the crush and she will follow you around in the paddock… HOWEVER this coming Monday I will have her scanned on farm to see what everything looks like in there as we have 21 mares for preg testing and so the vet will actually come over for that)

Everything that’s to be done with Bonnie must be done on observations due to lack of any technical and precise checks, due to this I want to also run the teaser out with her??? to help encourage her to use her body properly and get her peeing and winking and carrying on (though I know the Oxytocin will produce that when she is actually cycling) otherwise I won’t know when she is coming in if she has nothing to show to past checking her from the date when she is written down as due to return.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2686
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are jumping a vital and important step and have the potential to create a major disaster dependent upon what result that step produces.

Start at the beginning: Diagnostics!

You are suggesting treatment of an unknown (and even possibly absent) pathogen with Propercillin and honey. Firstly, Propercillin (procaine penicillin) is less than ideal for intrauterine use, it being an injectable. Introduction of procaine could also sometimes produce a negative reaction, so typically reconstituted crystalline penicillin is used. Secondly, you have not identified what (if any) pathogen is present. There is no guarantee that penicillin will be suitable for treatment of a pathogen (if present), as penicillin is fine for most gram+ pathogens, but will not impact gram- - which includes e-coli, one of the most common uterine pathogens. This form of penicillin is also fairly narrow in effect - other forms of penicillin such as Ticarcillin or Ampicillin are slightly more broad-spectrum, but still limited. Thirdly, if it turns out there is no pathogen present, introduction of an unnecessary antibiotic runs the risk of creation of a superinfection or resistant pathogen situation. Finally, if there is a pathogen present and it's a yeast, the introduction of an antibiotic and honey will be highly likely to create a terrible mess, making the situation far worse!

You cannot treat safely or effectively without performing diagnostics!

Use of saline lavage is typically not called for as a routine management practice and introduction of unnecessary agents - even saline - can be contraindicated owing to the increased potential for introduction of pathogens at the time of treatment. Again, use only after a diagnosed need is identified, when it can be beneficial.

Suitable oxytocin use in a breeding situation is discussed in this article on our site about oxytocin use (follow that link).

You indicate that the mare does not display estrus well and then suggest running her with a teaser... that is a likely recipe to get the teaser or both of them hurt, not to encourage her "to use her body properly and get her peeing and winking and carrying on". And incidentally, it is not oxytocin that causes that positive response behaviour, but the hormone estrogen.

I feel overall that you are heading down a potentially dangerous path with your suggested protocols. While you might be "OK" (although possibly not necessarily beneficial), you might also produce a major negative effect. You say your veterinarian is coming out on Monday, so my suggestion would be to have a good pre-breeding evaluation performed and consult with them on the next steps.
 

Gypsy Cob
Neonate
Username: Gypsy_cob

Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2010
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos

Thanks for that. The vet will be checking her out from head to tail on Monday before treatment. The above is a basic routine suggested to me (pending outcome of Monday) as it has already been established that she has an infection, but what's present hasn't been.
The little teaser is a horse she feels safe with and is quite affectionate to, I'm not prone to chucking anyone in with whoever and hope for the best. The mare shows very well IF there is someone around to show to who is gentle, otherwise you would never know she was in season, hence wondering about that so I can see when she comes back in and to encourage natural behaviours.
With the Ocytocin, I was refering to it as clearing her uterine fluids, not actually making her feel sexually receptive, sorry, bad way of putting it above.

Interesting to hear about the Propercillin and lucky I asked as that is the antibiotic suggested to me as being safe and effective to use in the event of above by GVE and several people trained there. The last thing I want to do is make things worse and or more uncomfortable for her.

I will track down some good links for you regarding Manuka Honey (specific to NZ), nothing yucky can grow in it and it is also scientifically proven to have exceptional cleansing and healing effects, there have been many medical studies into it and we have used it for years with exceptional results on some pretty horrific wounds after everything else failed to help. Despite the natural levels of sugars ect in honey, yeast is not a problem with Manuka and will not grow.

Once again, thanks for your advice. It is needed as not all of the vets down this way are all so horse savvy (we are in a dairy area) so I like to double check what I'm told FIRST these days.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2687
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 04:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Procaine penicillin was being used years ago as an intra-uterine treatment, so it may still be used by some. The biggest issue is that it's not broad-spectrum in sensitivity to pathogens. We prefer to use "Timentin" which is a combination of Ticarcillin and Clavulanate potassium (a β-lactimase inhibitor that "supercharges" the action), which is reasonably broad spectrum.

If you've already identified a uterine infection in the mare, then presumably you have also identified the pathogen, in which case it may be that penicillin is appropriate. Make sure you use an appropriate treatment specific to the pathogen though - just trying a "shotgun effect" at pathogenic treatment can lead to superinfection and resistant organisms, not to mention failure. You're far better off targeting the organism with the right antibiotic.

I'll be interested to see some peer-reviewed literature relating to successful treatment of yeast with Manuka honey. Please do provide a link. Always something new to learn...! :-)
 

Gypsy Cob
Neonate
Username: Gypsy_cob

Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2010
Posted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 05:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Again

The vet had a good look, he said she had just gone off on the left ovary, both ovaries were in good condition and neither one was inflamed or shrunk in anyway. The follicle that was on the right ovary was nice and big, well formed and shaped, he said she would have put up a lovely 4.5 or 5 on the other side by the looks.
Her uterus was in beautiful condition and felt really healthy, no fluid at all so I'm very pleased about that.

He suggests that I PG on Thursday and flush her before she is covered with saline just to make sure everything is nice and clean as he thinks she should be clear this time, he said we could use lotagen or provadine at correct rates if she is mucky again. Then clean her up four hours post service as the only thing he can put it down to at this stage is an over reaction to the sperm ect and give her a round of oxcytocin just to be sure.

So hopefully that sounds fair and reasonable?
 

Gypsy Cob
Nursing Foal
Username: Gypsy_cob

Post Number: 13
Registered: 01-2010
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

UPDATE TO READ Jos, we never saw this mare cycle again after the time in mid January and she was teased, even the stallion wasn't interested in her at any time. We gave her 2mls of PG on the 16th of Feb despite not knowing where she was as at lease we could have somewhere to start from with her. On the 18th she wasn't doing anything on the 20th she was showing and the stallion was interested. We put her in with him but she didn't seem quite right and nothing happened so we put her away thinking that she wasn't quite ready. We ground collected the stallion (no way would he reach her anyway) on the 21st (next day) as we had to AI anyway so extended two doses. Her cervix was tight and shut, there was no way anything was getting in there BUT the odd thing was that her cervix kind of felt like it was sticking out a bit if that makes sense )I have no idea if this is normal hence asking) And she was totally uninterested in the stallion. I wonder if when we needled her she was actually in already, she only showed both times when there was another of her paddock mates in season AFTER they went and talked to the stallion, so I don;t know. Anyway we have her down to PG her at 0.2mls on the 2nd and 3rd of March.

Got any ideas or insights for me? I'm not really sure where to go from here... should we check her again when she's on to see if we can inseminate? We can't get our hands on an ultrasound which is a pain and the closest vet with one is hours away and not keen on coming just to scan this mare
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2737
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Read the article "I gave my mare Prostaglandin, but it didn't work!" that appears on this site. It should help.

The cervix quite often protrudes into the vagina in some mares when they are in diestrus.

You probably need to keep checking the mare.



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