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AI didn't work - any suggestions?!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » AI didn't work - any suggestions?! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is my first time to try AI with this mare and I'm a novice when it comes to breeding. I have a 4 year old (purchased with her) and a yearling out of her, but they were both live cover. She also had two other foals from live cover prior to me purchasing her. She got pregnant in 2007 with live cover on the first try but took the stallion for a record # of days (10 I think). I am using a reproductive specialty vet and he says that he's perplexed why she didn't take. We had semen shipped on a 35 follicle, she was bred 2 days and ovulated 2 follicles the next day. Had her checked Saturday thinking we would have to pinch one & to both the vet and my surprise no embryo! She's definitely in heat again - had a 40 follicle today so semen is on it's way. Cultured twice, both clean. Any suggestions to help this TAKE this time? Do some mares just not do well with AI? Oh, also this is the FIRST MISS for this stallion live or AI in the 2 years they have been breeding him according to the breeder. I'm out of money and I don't want a summer foal in Arkansas - too HOT!!! Suggestions please!
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 434
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cheri..I totally understand your frustration...I am on my 4th try at AI with my mare....she has had 5 foals, 4 live cover 1, AI...she took easily the first AI two years ago...this time it's been a nightmare...the first two breedings, everything seemed good, she ovulated, semen was good, but she did have some fluid and we did alot of flushing afterwards....this last time, we had prepared her well, did a caslicks, short cycled her on Tues/Wed, vet checked her Thurs and ordered semen for Saturday.....semen arrived and she had already ovulated....so here we are trying #4....the vet and I are perplexed as well...thank goodness the stallion owner's have been supportive and have given me reduced shipment/collection costs these last two times....as my vet says, sometimes, crap just happens, but it is pretty costly crap right now to me.....((Sigh))....The only suggestion is, if you don't trust your person doing AI, find another quickly...I trust mine totally, she works for one of the best vet clinics in the nation and she does know what she's doing...the mare is just not cooperating this year....
 

Heidi Caldwell
Nursing Foal
Username: Heidicald

Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 05:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim, I have been following your posts. We are in a similar boat! And it sucks. Here is my story...

I tried to synch my two mares using regumate for 12 days, then the lut shots for 2 days, they both came into heat on time and donor was bred (perfect ovulation timing with cooled semen) but recipient NEVER ovulated. A big, huge follicle that ended up anovulatory. But not after costing me so much stress and money for daily ultrasounds, caslicks, flushing and infusions. Plus they were at the university for 7 days.

FF to today, preg check on donor (kept her "in foal" to carry it herself after analysing costs). Lo and behold, NO pregnancy was in there after all!

So all the $$, stress and time. I am about $5000 into this. My husband is about to KILL me. So, now I have the option of trying again, breeding her without ET and letting her carry it on her own OR trying to synch again with two mares (one of which is a loaner mare for free, the other is my mare with the bad huge follicle). What to do?

I think I know in my heart I better try the cheapest route and try a normal AI, no ET. But the mare is my very special competition mare, is 17 and I worry about her carrying the foal - she absorbed two before many years back but has also had one successfully since then.

I guess I am just looking to vent. Hope try #4 works for you. Mare is a four-letter word around my house today!
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 10:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I totally trust the vet - he runs his own breeding operation and has TONS of successful AI breedings every year. I'm just new to this and was wondering if some mares just don't take with AI (especially since she "liked" the stallion so much 2 years ago). The first time everything seemed too perfect for her to not be in foal. Oh well, hopefully this time will work, just wondered if anyone had any "secrets". The breeder did give me a slight discount this shipping. This is going to be a LONG two weeks!
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 436
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 06:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cheri..I know what you mean about the waiting...The only other thing I did, which I was able to, was contact the previous AI stallion's owner and see what extender she used. I asked this new one to try that extender...the mare did not seem to have as much of a reaction to this last AI, even though she had ovulated, so we are going to use the same extender again...she got in foal with it two years ago, so I said why not try what we knew worked. I thought the same thing..live better than AI, but from what I've been told and everything I've read, AI actually is a better/cleaner/safer way to go...just a more pricey way to go! Good Luck
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2474
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had semen shipped on a 35 follicle, she was bred 2 days and ovulated 2 follicles the next day

Are you saying she was bred 2 days in a row and then ovulated on the next day? If so, I would not be at all suprised when checking her to find that there was no pregnancy. Remember that with shipped semen it is already about 24 hours old when received (having in most cases been collected the day before and shipped overnight), and then you bred for another 2 days, so from what you're saying, the semen was probably >72 hours old when the mare ovulated. Even fresh semen on-farm is pushing the limit at 72 hours in most cases, and that has not been subjected to the insult of processing and shipping.

Cultured twice, both clean

What did the cytology show? There was a cytology smear prepared and read wasn't there? A culture result without a cytology smear supporting the results is pretty much useless! Read our article on the importance of cytology smears for more details.

Do some mares just not do well with AI?

Only if they are not managed correctly. If they are managed well, then pregnancy rates with AI will be better than with live cover.
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 02:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only other thing I did, which I was able to, was contact the previous AI stallion's owner and see what extender she used. I asked this new one to try that extender...the mare did not seem to have as much of a reaction to this last AI, even though she had ovulated, so we are going to use the same extender again...she got in foal with it two years ago, so I said why not try what we knew worked.
This is something I hadn't even thought about. If it doesn't work this time I'll talk to the breeders about this!

Are you saying she was bred 2 days in a row and then ovulated on the next day? If so, I would not be at all suprised when checking her to find that there was no pregnancy. Remember that with shipped semen it is already about 24 hours old when received (having in most cases been collected the day before and shipped overnight), and then you bred for another 2 days, so from what you're saying, the semen was probably >72 hours old when the mare ovulated.
So my question is, if she is bred as soon as the semen arrives (approx.24 hours) and again with the second dose the next morning, when does she need to ovulate? She was given a shot to ovulate, not sure what it was or when it was given. Is this a good or bad thing to do?

What did the cytology show? There was a cytology smear prepared and read wasn't there?

Not sure, the vet just said her culture came back clean, I guess I'll ask!
The vet I'm using is Jess Clement and he's really well known around central Arkansas. I guess I'm just wondering if there are more questions I need to ask or provisions I need to take for next time if this one doesn't take. The semen arrived today and she was bred this morning and will be given the second dose in the morning I think - anything I need to ask the vet to do today that would help?
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 442
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, if she ovulates overnight, I would not give the other dose...at least that is what my vet would say....if she ovulated, let the other dose do it's thing...but every vet is different. Cheri, you are just like I was...trusting the vet and not asking questions, as I didn't know what to ask, but this being my second AI and it not going very well, I've learned to ask...what size is the follicle, does she have edema, any fluid...did she speck out at all...blah blah blah, not sure what it all means, but folks on this board do, so I gather the info and post it for opinions and suggestions...ha ha
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for all of the info so far! I'm certainly going to ask him a few more questions this afternoon!
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1954
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim, what does "speck out" mean? I'm not familiar with this terminology.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2475
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the mare did not seem to have as much of a reaction to this last AI, even though she had ovulated, so we are going to use the same extender again...

Please see the item about "reactions to semen extenders" in this article. It is most likely that you are dealing with a delayed uterine clearance mare that would benefit from the use of an oxytocin protocol, not an issue with the extender.

if she is bred as soon as the semen arrives (approx.24 hours) and again with the second dose the next morning, when does she need to ovulate?

The first point to consider is that if the mare is bred again the next morning - approx. 16 hours after the first breeding - then the uterus is in the height of the post-breeding inflammatory response, and according to research, the majority of those sperm inseminated are going to be destroyed by the PMN's that are active in the uterus at that point. In other words, it's a waste of time inseminating again the morning after. Research demonstrates that the inflammatory response is well under control in a healthy-uterus mare by 24 hours after the initial breeding/insemination, and it is then that the second insemination should take place, if needed, and as long as there are still >100 million progressively motile, morphologically normal sperm present in the insemination dose (if there aren't, we don't bother inseminating the second dose - it's going to cause an inflammatory response with no potential benefit).

As far as when the mare needs to ovulate, the answer is as soon as possible after the semen is put into her! The sperm are not going to be viable indefinitely, and if she doesn't ovulate for 2 or three days after insemination, the success rate is going to be very low. We like to see the mares ovulate the evening of the day they are inseminated - that makes us happy! :-)
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 443
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 04:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marilyn: It's when they put that long silver tube in their vulva and put a flashlight in there and look around HA HA HA....I hate to guess, but I think they are looking for like cervix opening...kind of like us dialating...I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...but I pay $12.00 everytime she pulls that long tube thing out and looks thru it...called speculum I think he he he
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 444
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JOS - LOL....you know that we women find anything we can to hold onto...so I wanted that same extender darn it...it worked once before, so why not again (that's how we think)HEHEHE....and yes, she did have uterine clearance issues, but really not as bad as when we changed the extender...so who knows...but we did use the oytocin protocol too!
 

Ann
Yearling
Username: Northernperch

Post Number: 75
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have had mares ovulate 12 hoursbefore insemination and catch. We have also had mares get a "push" and be inseminated and then ovulate....

This gig is not about what we want...it is all mother nature. LOL! But you are right Kim...we women will grab any port in the storm!!!!!
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1956
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 08:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol thanks for the explaination Kim. lol You crack me up!
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 448
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 08:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know sometimes I feel bad for asking so many questions of my vet...so I listen and then draw my own conclusions of how I interpret what she says and it comes back like my explanation...ha ha...we have to have humour...my semen is in route! Is Uh-O being checked for ovulation today? I'm sure she is...let us know....
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1958
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 09:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Go semen go! lol Kim, I wish I could be there to see Sweetie's ultrasound... heck I wish I was in Michigan right now to see Uh-O's ultrasound... lol It's been difficult to only "hear" what's going on and not be able to "see" what's going on. Uh-O's 4 hours from where we live... waaaa!!!

Let us know what the vet says. I hope she's close to ovulating by the time she gets inseminated.

Good luck Kim. I'm praying for the both of us!!!
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 449
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan? That is where my semen is coming from! stallion is Coronado WW....belgian warmblood...that is funny....waiting, waiting...and waiting for fedx truck HE HE...staring at the parking lot....I will be on the run with my cargo when it gets here....I'll post back when all is said and done..Sweetie was a hussy all night long, calling and pining for the pony gelding...I hope she held that egg!
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1961
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 09:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope so too Kim! If she did she'll ovulate soon after inseminating. That would be awesome!!!
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok - I had it wrong, the first time she was bred she did ovulate on the second day of breeding. The vet said her timing couldn't have been better. However, he just called me to come out and look at the sperm sample - there were only 2 sperm I could see moving!!!! He said it wasn't much better yesterday either. Do I call the stallion owner and tell them? The vet says it's not my mare. How do I get better sperm from the same stallion?
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 452
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bummer Cheri... I would definately call them...do you have time for them to do another shipment real quick....you can't get pregnant if the sperm isn't good.....
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 6
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly Kim - that why I'm so bummed! Anyway, I wonder now if it's the stallion or something they're not doing to the sperm before they ship it? Although the lady told me that there is a mare in Texas that took around the same time we bred my mare for the first time about three weeks ago. Her follicle when I left the vet's today was at a 47 and had a bulge on the side, he said it was about to go anytime. I guess I'll just wait the 14 days b/c there's no way to get sperm here before she ovulates! Oh well - I really wanted her bred to this stallion, but it may just not happen this year!
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 456
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, we bred my mare this am, has a 47 follicle, everything was in place, my vet just called and said she got back to the lab and the semen didn't look good....WTH....I'm about to freak...I'm with you, what if it's been him all along...I'm staying positive...she said it was like 5% progressive motility...OMG...I'm hoping she didn't store it right or left it out too long before checking it! What a mess!
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1966
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 02:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No way Kim! I would be freaking out too! That sucks!

You caught her at a great time though, so try and keep positive thoughts going, it only takes one swimmer to get where it needs to go. It only takes one. Keep saying that. You may want to put more in now... I just don't know what to tell you.
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 2508
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh WOW Kim....unbelievable...what did the packing slip say the motility was? She put it in the mare anyways right? Let's be praying you have some strong swimmers in that 5%.....call the stallion owner.
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 7
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OMG Kim it sounds like our mares are at about exactly the same place - they're ready to go but the sperm just isn't looking like it can get the job done!!

How do they figure the percentage for mobility? I know I personally looked at the slide and saw only 2 swimmers out of the whole bunch! But you're right Marilyn, it only takes one. Maybe it will be the lucky one for both of us Kim! Thanks for everyone's input. I guess now it's just a waiting game.

BTW Kim he did use the second dose on my mare even though there wasn't good mobility. I guess he felt like he had to do everything he could on his end - Good Luck!
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The first point to consider is that if the mare is bred again the next morning - approx. 16 hours after the first breeding - then the uterus is in the height of the post-breeding inflammatory response, and according to research, the majority of those sperm inseminated are going to be destroyed by the PMN's that are active in the uterus at that point.

She was bred at 10:30am yesterday and at the same time this morning so I guess that's ok?

As far as when the mare needs to ovulate, the answer is as soon as possible after the semen is put into her!

So what are the chances if she ovulates the evening of the second dose, especially with the low mobility? Would this timing be good if the sperm mobility wasn't an issue?
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 457
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan: I am so hoping the semen was still good! The vet took a little from the AI tube after she put in Sweetie, put it in a little vial and then I don't know where she put it...hopefully in the cooler in the truck...anyway, when she called, she said she had taken it out and put it in her pocket to warm it up...so maybe she just mis-handled it some before testing it? Anyway, the semen report with the shipment is this...collected 6/9/09 at 11:00 am; Total Voume 50ml; Concentration 255.4 m/ml; Initial Motility 85%; Progressive Motility 70%; Extender INRA; Extention ration 28 million pms/ml......I don't know what all this means...but I would assume it was very good semen when it was collected...anyone else know?
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 2511
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That sounds like excellent shipment of "man in the can", Was the cooling element okay on the shipment? I am sure all the good stuff is in you mare and the stuff left over was just that...feeling good about this one Kim don't get discouraged!
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos
In your professional opinion, if this were a mare you were dealing with, would you call the stallion owner at this point and tell them about the mobility? What would you tell them? Unlike Kim, my shipment had no information like that included. What to do.......?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2479
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 01:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So what are the chances if she ovulates the evening of the second dose, especially with the low mobility? Would this timing be good if the sperm mobility wasn't an issue?

Less than ideal any way you look at it. The semen is probably >48 hours old at that point, which as I commented above is less than ideal even in an on-farm situation.

Re: the percentage progressive motility. People get hung up on % motility. Don't. Go and read this article.

would you call the stallion owner at this point and tell them about the mobility?

Not until the mare checks not in foal I wouldn't... if that happens, then discuss it with them. You need to make absolutely sure first though that the semen evaluation was performed correctly at the time of insemination. I would say that a good 75% of the time that we hear about an "issue" with the semen, it transpires that the evaluation was not performed correctly. And BTW, taking a sample back to the clinic in a vial in a pocket - or even the cooler on the truck (which can freeze) - does not constitute a "correct evaluation"... :-(
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1969
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 06:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim, it sounds like you may have had a good batch after all. I hope that gives you a better outlook on this breeding.

Did Sweetie ovulate last night? I still have a good feeling about her.

Good luck, I hope both of our mares are pregnant as we speak!
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 459
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 06:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good morning! Vet is coming out around 11:00 to check her. I kind of thought the same thing about the semen....it probably was not properly handled after AI to get a good reading....we opened the box just before she AI'd so I'm certain it was packed well....she was a bit upset around 8:30 last night, we loaded the pony gelding up and took him to her friend's house for a sleepover...they are going to practice games for a fun show Sunday...needless to say, when I came back home without trailer and pony...said "mare" was NOT HAPPY AT ALL....she hollered paced and basically was pretty darn crabby....still shooting and squatting out of her rear end....so keeping fingers crossed all is good!
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 461
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 11:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Updated sweetie in breeding 2010 foals, but wanted to update about the semen evaluation....she did say that she "froze" it yesterday before taking it to the lab, so I guess 5% motility after freezing and then warming, pretty darn good! HA HA, since she ovulated over night or after AI yesterday, she didn't put the other syringe in today, but took it directly back to the lab to check it....so I am feeling better...she wanted to be sure the semen we put in yesterday was good, so that's why she took the one left over....I feel better now! :-)
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 463
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Update on semen....vet took second syringe of semen back to check it, since we didn't use it...this is a highly respected equine hospital in town here...she said they put the syringe in the incubator and then tested the semen, they saw no progressive motile sperm....she said it didn't look good...but in reading the article Jos referred to...it doesn't sound like they did enough testing on it...it says to do a dropper at a time and warm it...sounded like they warmed the whole syringe...I just don't know, I don't want to question the vet and hope they are doing their jobs right and pray for the best...I'm praying for a embryo and will proceed as if all was good! My luck as got to change and my mare needs a baby! LOL...:-) Kim
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 464
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guess what!! I just went to throw out the shipment I rec'd on 5/23 for the previous AI....we didn't use the 2nd dosage....would you believe, when I opened the box...the pack was still very cold and the syringe was still very cooled...this was collected on 5/22/09.....so I know that the one they just did 2 days ago had to still be cooled as well...I'm feeling better, I just feel like somehow, they read the semen counter right at the clinic...I'm sticking with that...for the fun of it, I'm taking this one to my friend's house tonight and let them look under their microscope...guess you never know? :-)
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1971
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 04:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, no kidding, it was still cooled... amazing. I think you got her this time Kim!
 

Cheri Castleberry
Neonate
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim - glad things may be looking up for you! My vet checked the semen there at his clinic when he unpacked it to do the insemination. He did the dropper and let it warm on the slide. That's the dose I also looked at and only saw two swimmers. It's not looking good but I guess it won't hurt to still keep my fingers crossed!
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 465
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 07:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good morning Cheri...who knows whether it's looking up or not for me at this time...the good news is, the mare is doing everything right..clearing her fluids really well and she is looking like things could finally go her way...so hopeing a swimmer made it to the destination. The stallion owner said she checked the semen at 11:00 pm the day after collection (we put it in the mare 12 hours earlier) and at that time it was 30% motility....vet said that still is not very good, but maybe it was better when it was put in. Vet said she had a good feeling about her this time....so we are praying and hoping...if not, stallion owner will work with us for another collection...but I sure don't want to go that route! LOL...good luck to you, I'll be thinking about you...what did your stallion owner say?
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1976
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All in all, taken all of this in account, I think you're still in good shape Kim. The only concern I have is, did she have the "little guys" packaged correctly. If so, I think you're in good shape. I guess we can analize this to death and we'll never know. :-( I'm anxiously awaiting your ultrasound. I wish you luck!

Cheri, I wish you luck with your ultrasound. You're right, two weeks is a very long time. I wish someone would invent a pee stick for equine. lol Whomever does invent this, will become a millionaire overnight! lol
 

Cheri Castleberry
Nursing Foal
Username: Tym2ryd

Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Kim and Marilyn. I decided not to call the stallion owner until I have Sophie checked. Ironically 14 days falls on my Birthday - what a great birthday present if it takes!:-)
If not - I'm not sure if I'll try again or wait until spring, just keeping my fingers crossed - it only takes one.
Kim, when is your 14 day ultrasound?
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 468
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mine should be June 24th or 25th....we may be taking mom's mare to stallion tomorrow..she has a big fat 43 follicle but no edema and not specking...this is the same thing sweetie did and then she ovulated before we bred her...so we are checking her tomorrow am and see what to do...these mares are gonna kill us!
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1984
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good luck Cheri, Kim and Kim's mom! The week of ultrasounds coming up. lol

I hope you have a wonderful birthday present Cheri.
 

Carol K
Weanling
Username: Rodawn

Post Number: 24
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know the saying - it's not the size of boat but the motion of the ocean?

Jos is very correct in his statements. While you want fairly good motility, it's more the quality of the swimmers you do have that is important. You could have 90% motility but poor swimming ability and you won't get the mare pregnant. It only takes one strong swimmer to achieve pregnancy!

Frozen semen has a post thaw motility of around 20-35% but still you achieve good rates of pregnancy with it.

My vet likes to inseminate one dose in the late evening just before she thinks the mare is to ovulate, and the mare is hot like chili peppers to the teaser stud. Then she gets up in the night and ultrasounds at about 3 AM. If the follicle disappeared, she throws in another dose. She says a significant percentage of mares will ovulate in the middle of the night so she wants the semen in there swimming up the tubes simultaneous to the ovulation, and back-up boys on the way almost immediately afterwards. I've had 100% success with this, i.e. 100% of my mares sent to this vet achieved pregnancy in 1 or 2 attempts with fresh chilled AI. This year, I'm going frozen with 3 mares. It's wonderful to have a vet this dedicated to the art of insemination but not all are willing to do this.
 

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 471
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 09:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carol: It sounds like you have a rare find in your vet...we all pretty much like and trust our vets, but it sounds like yours goes above and beyond...and truly loves her job....in fairness to my vet, she comes to my home and does the work, my mare stays here..so, I don't think she'd be too keen, getting up and driving to my house at 3:00 am...LOL...then I'd have to get up and help her too! HE HE
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1993
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 10:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow Carol, you are fortunate to have a vet that would go above and beyond. It sounds like an early morning insemination would work perfectly. But like Kim said, not too many vets would get up in the middle of the night to inseminate a mare.

I would have a difficult time going to work the next day when I've been up at 3:00 in the morning for an hour or more, inseminating a mare. It would be difficult to fall back to sleep. Kim, I could be wrong here, but I would be willing to bet you, that if your vet told you she wanted to inseminate Sweetie at 3:00 am, you'd be there with a bells on. I know I would. lol

On the subject of great vets, I very much appreciate my vet as well. As you may or may not know, my mare had (maybe still has,it's too soon to tell) a persistant infection. My vet had tried all last year to get her clean, but she was never able to accomplish this task. Now this year, she called several vets and discussed our mare's situation, and I think she may have found the solution.

Our vet is willing to talk to us at any time and she's open to our suggestions and doesn't give us the feeling our thoughts aren't apprectiated.

I feel fortunate to have a super vet as well!



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