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Showing heat but no follicle development?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Showing heat but no follicle development? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Amanda K
Nursing Foal
Username: Amandak

Post Number: 14
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know why a mare would stop producing follicles or if there's a medical treatment to help the process? My thoroughbred mare was u/s a couple of months ago & there was no activity in her ovaries. She has since been coming into season regularly & I sent her off to the stud farm when she started showing last week.

They teased her & followed along with U/S but no sign of a developing follicle. She's now out of heat. She does have multiple cysts, but has had them for a few years now. She was bred in 2007 & 2008, caught on the first time with each. Unfortunatately her 2008 filly died at birth & I rebred her after her foal heat but she didn't catch.

I'm now leaning towards retiring the mare from breeding. She's 21 this year & in great physical shape so I wanted to try for one last foal from her as I would be very hard pressed to find another mare like her. Could the cysts be affecting her follicle development? Any type of treatment options or has she just become infertile?

Any info or advice would be welcome. I hadn't heard of a mare appearing to cycle regularly, show interest when teased, but not produce a follicle.

Amanda
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2414
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 12:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is unlikely that the cysts would have anything to do with it. The age of your mare however may have a connection.

If you are still seeing a persistent failure to develop follicles, and you have confirmed a lack of ovulation by performing a series of blood-progesterone assays (3, each 1 week apart with no results showing levels greater than 1 ng/ml), then you might want to consider one of two things:
  • Checking the mare for Cushing's or pre-Cushing's syndrome (which can have an effect on cyclicity), bearing in mind that there are some horses that do not test positive for Cushing's, but do display obvious symptoms;
  • Run a GnRH and Domperidone (or sulpiride) stimulation protocol.
 

marina novotna
Neonate
Username: Marina

Post Number: 7
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Jos,

This is a very interesting question for me also.
My mare was also ultrasounded, when she was showing the heat. But there wasnt any big follicle, there was a very small folicle (1 cm) and a CL tissue. U/S again and the same condition. She got prostaglandin. Three days later still small follicles, one week later two follicles 1,7 x 1,5 cm. She got GnRH (Supergestran, 2 ml per dose) for six days in a row. These six days the follicles are still the same. Will U/S her again today. This is on her right ovary, left is completely inactive. My vet said the mare is lost for breeding.

My vet also mentioned Cushing, but the mare has very good coat, drinks and urinates small amounts. Didnt do any tests though.

I have to said, that we are trying to breed the mare for two years unsuccessfully, last year she ovulated, but from very small follicles - 2,5 cm! Also her ovaries are small, left is inactive.

So my questions are: can the mare have Cushing without the symptoms?
What is the correct "GnRH and Domperidone (or sulpiride) stimulation protocol" (my vet said, with the GnRH it is just a try, so I think she doesnt know the protocol).

Thank you very much.
Marina
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2438
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

can the mare have Cushing without the symptoms?

Yes, or you can have a pre-Cushing's syndrome.

What is the correct "GnRH and Domperidone (or sulpiride) stimulation protocol"

Go to the BET Labs web site, then go "Enter USA" > "Equine" > "Anovulatory Mare Protocols"
 

marina novotna
Neonate
Username: Marina

Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 09:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, Thank you very much, your answers are very helpful.

Ok, we have to test the mare for Cushing first. I went to the BET Labs site and saw, that we also have to test total T4.
Now, if the results are ok (no Cushing and normal T4), there are several protocols on the BET Labs site. Some for transitional mares and some for post-foaling mares, these are not for our situation. There is one for anovulatory mares, but this is GnRH plus progesterone injections. Is that, what you had in mind, or would you recommend another one (because it doesnt contain Domperidone or sulpiride, as you wrote)?
If this is the right one, is it necessary to give progesterone in the form of injections? Wouldnt it be possible to use Regumate instead? If yes, in what dosage?

And one more question about another mare (I have few older mares, who are difficult, but as they are champion producers, I would like to get them in foal..)
When this mare is in the heat, she almost doesnt have the cervix. Between the heats, the cervix is open for one finger. Is there something, which is recommended for this situation? (she will be ready for breeding tomorrow and we plan to A.I. her, flush her few hours post breeding and use the oxytocine protocol)

Many thanks again,
Marina
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2443
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The article on the BET Pharm web site entitled "New Pharmacological Treatments for Equine Reproductive Management" by Burns et. al. should provide some information for you to discuss with your vet.

Re: the second mare. From your description, this sounds as though she may be a windsucking mare. If that is the case, a Caslick's procedure may be of benefit, but you need to make sure you do not create a urine pooling situation by placement if her reproductive conformation is very poor. The fact that the cervix is still open 1 finger during diestrus pretty much rules out pregnancy maintenance, so you probably need to address a variety of issues in order to get this mare pregnant, and she may well be a better candidate for being an ET donor mare, although with an open cervix during diestrus even that may be doubtful. Use of a progestin may assist in closing the cervix adequately to at least be able to flush an embryo if not to maintain a full duration pregnancy.
 

marina novotna
Neonate
Username: Marina

Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 04:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Many thanks, Jos.

We bred the second mare via A.I. last Monday, the evening before ovulation,we gave her oxytocin before and after breeding, up to 4th day post ovulation, because yes, she is a windsucking mare and the air could be seen on the ultrasound. Unfortunately I couldnt get the vet here until 24 hours post breeding to flush her. This was already post ovulation. She was Caslicked three days post breeding (because my vet was waiting for second opinion from her collegue, because the mare was apparently Caslicked many times before and has small vulva and the vet was considering cuting some ligament between anus and vulva, but finally didnt do that, because the mare has two melanomas next to anus). The vet didnt say anything about urine pooling situation - how could one recognise this?
The mare was put on Regumate 4 days post ovulation and we are now waiting for the pregnancy check.
Is there anything else we could do next time, if she is not in foal?
 

Ad TB
Breeding Stock
Username: Ajvtbs

Post Number: 862
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can test the fluid that is returned after flushing for urine but usually this isn't necessary as you can smell it pretty easily.
 

marina novotna
Neonate
Username: Marina

Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We finally know, that the mare nr. 1 doesnt have Cushing and has normal level of T4.

Now my question is probably adresses to Ad TB - the anovulatory protocol is here : http://www.betlabs.com/anomare.htm (down) - what GnRH product is available in Europe? I hope you or your husband could know..

Many thanks,
Marina
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2506
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not Ad TB, but...

I believe you will find that Buserelin is available in the UK, and possibly mainland Europe. Deslorelin in the product Ovuplant is also available in the UK and Europe as well.

Incidentally, for those that might be interested, we are giving a short course in Gloucester, England in October (2009) - see our short course page for more details.
 

marina novotna
Nursing Foal
Username: Marina

Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 05:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, Many thanks, you are very helpful.
Buserelin is available here, product name is Receptal and it contains 0.004 mg of Buserelin in 1 ml. What would be the correct dosage?
To induce ovulation of a mature follicle, the dosage is 10 ml (which is 0.04 mg of Buserelin)(see for example http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Intervet_Schering-Plough/Receptal/-29966.html )
The anovulatory mares protocol says 1 mg GnRH in one dose... for sure it cant be the same dosage...
 

Ad TB
Breeding Stock
Username: Ajvtbs

Post Number: 904
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 05:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Marina,
LH, Chorulon is available in Europe dosage is 1,500iu. Ovuplant as Jos said is also available, it's an implanted capsule that released 2.1mg of Deslorelin. I'm not sure about the dosage of Receptal as we don't use it.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2507
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would recommend that your veterinarian call BET Pharmacy and ask to speak to Dr. Douglas to get corresponding dosages. The BET Pharm number is +1 (859) 273-2930 - they may have to give your vet Dr. Douglas' cell number, as he spends a lot of time away from the office. You don't want to overdose, and there's no point in underdosing...!
 

marina novotna
Nursing Foal
Username: Marina

Post Number: 12
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 01:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have some news regarding mare #2 - the one with open cervix.

She was bred and checked not in foal. But Regumate seems to work very well for her, she had much better cervix even in the following heat.
She was bred on this heat, 7 days after taking her off Regumate, with frozen (unfortunately no other option for her) within 2 hours post ovulation, was on oxytocin up to 3 1/2 days post ovulation and on Regumate again from day 4. She was not flushed this time, the uterus looked well, only with the very little amount of air (she is Caslicked from the previous cycle and cant be sticked more).

She was checked in foal on day 16. Now she was U/S again, on day 21, the embryo is there, the size is good for this age, but there are some echogenic areas in the embryo. My vet thinks she is loosing it.
Is there something, that can be done right now, or we have to just sit and wait and check again in few days?

Thank you very much,
Marina

PS. Mare #2 is going through the anovulatory protocol, today is day 15, so I will let you know next week, if it works for her.
 

marina novotna
Nursing Foal
Username: Marina

Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Soo, the embryo is gone today. We took the mare off Regumate and will try it again...

Mare #1 has two 1,5 cm follicles on day 19 of the anovulatory protocol
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 2148
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awww, that's too bad Marina. I wish you better luck next time.
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 784
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Was a biopsy done on this mare? It might be rather beneficial... she may not be able to carry a foal to term. If I had a mare on Regumate, and she still lost the pregnancy early on, I would definately have a biopsy done. Actually, I get biopsies done on every new mares before actually getting them.
 

marina novotna
Nursing Foal
Username: Marina

Post Number: 14
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 08:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, this mare was not biopsied. I live in a small country, biopsy is not routinely done here, so even if my vet does it, we dont have any lab to interpret the results.

News Re mare #1: 3 cm follicle on day 22! We never saw follicle of this size in this mare. Seems, that the protocol is working well for her. However she doesnt have uterine oedema. So, we hope that she is in the beginning of the heat (we cant tell it from behaviour, as she shows to the stallion most of the time) and will ovulate normally later.
 

marina novotna
Nursing Foal
Username: Marina

Post Number: 15
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 10:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, the mare ovulated on Friday from 3 cm follicle
 

marina novotna
Nursing Foal
Username: Marina

Post Number: 17
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I need help again..
Mare #1 is now 5 days post ovulation, she was U/S yesterday and she has nice CL. BUT she still shows to the stallion. Jos, do you think that this is only behavioural problem, or do you think it can be also influenced by hormonal disbalance? I am considering puting her on Regumate to be sure I made everything possible for the possible pregnancy..
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2560
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Almost certainly submissive behaviour as long as the CL is a new CL and not one left from a previous cycle (not all CL's resolve completely and disappear in a single cycle).

If in doubt run a series of blood-progesterone assays and go from there.



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