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Bacteria

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Bacteria « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Tammy Snell
Neonate
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok so my mare has been cultured and the results are bacteria in her uterus, just wondering what everyones thought are on the correct antibiotic??? I have heard that gentomycin (sp?) may be to harsh???? Thanks!
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1527
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess it depends on the bacteria. If you take a cytology along with the uterian culture, you will know which antibiotic the mare is sensitive to.

Gentomycin can be harsh. Both my mares had a reaction to it. But it worked well in getting rid of the infection they had. If the mare is sensitive to other drugs, I prefer to use the milder type of antibiotic.
 

Tammy Snell
Neonate
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

arrrrrgh as far as I know the vet did not do a cytology. I was told they were waiting for the sensitivities so they could then decide on the proper antibiotic, is that different from a cytology????
 

Tammy Snell
Neonate
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marilyn what type of a reaction did they have???
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1530
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds like the vet did do the culture if he's waiting on the lab work to come back for the sensitivities. No worry!
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1531
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One mare had a bad rash in the back and was red and tender to the touch. The other one had a white discharge right after she was medicated. Not sure if that was a reaction or what, but we had to use a different antibiotic to help that.
 

Tammy Snell
Neonate
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ooooh thats what I was hoping, man Iam getting an education in breeding, going from a maiden mare that aborted twins at 8.5 months to an older experienced mare with a whole new set of issues, oi vei!!
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1532
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are at the right place Tammy, you'll learn lots here. What kind of infection did the vet say she has?
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1533
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am the queen of mare infections. lol I've had my share of these problems and I'm still dealing with them. UGGG!!!
 

Tammy Snell
Neonate
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vet said it is bacteria.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1534
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bacteria causes the infection. I was just wondering what type of infection the bacteria caused.
 

Tammy Snell
Nursing Foal
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hmmmmm good question, I will tell you what happened. We did AI on a 43mm ovulating follicle!! only to find out 15 days later that she was not pregnant, she had no fluid in her uterus, but she is a windsucker!! The vet just said she has some bacteria in her uterus, but I will find out when I call tomorrow.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2031
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Windsuckers will commonly have bacteria in their uterus, and you can drive yourself crazy trying to isolate one type. You would probably be better discussing the use of a general antibacterial lavage rather than trying to isolate a single antibiotic for each single pathogen - there will likely be more than one.

Gentamycin needs to be buffered before intra-uterine use. If it is correctly buffered, reaction will be limited. If it not correctly buffered, the mare will be likely to be scalded on her vulval lips and back legs, and of course also inside her vagina and uterus. There is no need for this if correctly buffered, although there may be a mild reaction.

I also get the impression that the OP is not aware of the fact that there are literally hundreds of different bacteria, and many will require a different antibiotic - there is on one "universal" antibiotic.

If she's a windsucker, discuss use of a Caslick's procedure with your vet as well.

There should also have been a cytology smear prepared and read, although if she is a bad windsucker, you can be sure there will be inflammatory cells present.
 

Tammy Snell
Nursing Foal
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nope didnt know that about bacteria, but that is probably what the vet is planning as they never told me the specific bacteria. We are planning on doing a caslick on her after she is bred, if that ever happens.

The link to the cytology smear will not work. Is there a different treatment on top of the bacteria- for inflammatory cells, or will the atibiotic take care of those as well????
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2035
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My apologies - the link will now work.

The bacteria cause the inflammatory cells if they are truly pathogenic in nature (and not a contaminant). If the pathogens are cleared, the body will stop producing inflammatory cells. Think about what happens when you get a hay splinter in your finger - you get a little pimple full of pus. That pus is inflammatory cells. When you pull out the splinter, the pus (inflammatory cells) disappear over the course of the next few days. The same thing will happen with your mare if you get rid of the irritant (the bacteria).
 

Tammy Snell
Nursing Foal
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 13
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 01:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok so if I have this correct I should do a general antibacterial flush, as I probably cant identify the certain bacteria?? and that will also take care of the inflammatory cells. So then will I still be able to breed on that same cycle? if so how long after the last flush is safe?

Sorry if I sound like a newbie, Iam at this infectious stuff! I like to be able to ask the right questions of the vet when in conversation.

Thanks this board is GREAT!!!!!
 

Tammy Snell
Nursing Foal
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ooops sorry 1 more quick question, should we follow-up with oxytocin, and if so how many times???
 

Tammy Snell
Nursing Foal
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 15
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just talked to the vet and he said there is minimal bacteria, 2 light and 1 scant, so he wants to give her prostaglandin (sp?) to short cycle her and then I think he said 7-8 days later flush with saline and gentomycin and AI at the end of that cycle. How does that sound to anyone that has been in the same boat. He also thought that because the bacteria was so low he doesnt believe that is why she didnt take prior, he says sometimes it just takes a couple of cycles??
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2036
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 09:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The inflammatory cells are present as a result of the infection, so if you clear the bacteria, the horse's body will cease to release inflammatory cells.

It is generally recommended to ensure clearance of any pathogen prior to breeding, but in the case of a windsucker reintroduction of a pathogen is likely, so it becomes a little "hit and miss", so breeding is often performed following treatment on the same cycle, although that is not necessarily ideal. There is also a risk of inflammation from the treatment, and gentamycin in particular can be irritating if not correctly buffered.

As far as specific treatments suitable for your situation, you should discuss those options with your attending veterinarian.
 

Tammy Snell
Nursing Foal
Username: Sloan

Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos the vet was just here to give prostaglandin and will return when she comes into heat flush and then rebreed. I spoke to him about the harshness of gentamycin and he did not necessarily agree he said it has been used for a long time for this and is a broad spectrum anitbiotic, can you tell me a bit about buffering, does it come like that or is it something that has to be done to it???? Thanks again for all the help.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2040
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Merk Veterinary Manual offers some information that may be of assistance to you.

Gentamycin is only effective against gram-negative bacteria. You can see more about which antibiotics are effective against what categories of pathogens by visiting this link, or at this site.

The product "Gentocin" which is designed for intra-uterine use is already buffered, but "gentamycin" (the drug itself) is not.
 

Cindy Clevenger
Neonate
Username: Ckylemrtccom

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, I am so glad I found this site. I am new here and new to this bacterial infection stuff also. I learned the hard way. I live in a very rural area, people breed horses without a lot of precaution. I took my mare for service at a larger farm to have her bred. I signed no contract, or wasn't warned about bacterial infection. I was asked for coggins and health check papers which I produced. I got a call from the stallion owner saying my mare had a bacterial infection...discovered after the cover...and that he'd had his vet check her and that I'd have to have her treated, and was also responsible for the treatment of his stallion...ouch! I understand this to some point, but I asked if I needed to have her checked at the vet before bringing her. He advised not to worry, that he'd handle the mares needs. To me, if he deemed her healthy to breed without a culture, shouldn't he be responsible for treatment of his stallion. Now, if I'd been given a choice and declined a culture, or signed some type of contract, I would understand, but I was very surprised by this news. I am new to this and just learning the hard way I guess. I agreed to pay his vet bill and didn't say anything to him. Just wondering if this sounds right to you guys???
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2158
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 09:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You might want to ask them to prove that the bacterial infection that they found in the mare after the live cover wasn't actually obtained from the stallion! :-)

In actual fact, transmission of problematical bacteria during breeding is restricted to 3 types - Taylorella equigenitalis (the causative agent of CEM - not currently present in North America), Pseudomonas aeruginosa and Klebsiella pneumoniae. Other bacteria are not considered to be "STD's"!

It sounds strongly to me as though you are being scammed. I would demand more information before paying any of the stallion owner's vet bills. Plus - as you note - if there was no written requirement for a pre-breeding soundness check, or if the stallion owner knowingly waived that requirement by breeding the mare without the results of that evaluation in hand, then they assumed all risks. Had they not wished to take that risk, they could have either not bred the mare, or not bred her live cover (i.e. performed AI).

As I say... dig in your toes and ask questions - it sounds very suspect. If you are sure of your facts, you may also want to publicize the names of the other party and their stallion - no point in someone else having the face the same thing. Only do that if you are sure of your facts though!!



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