MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
SITE MAP OF EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
CONTACT US

horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
Go to the articles page
 
Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
 
Topics Page Topics Page Register for a new account Register Edit Profile Profile Log Out Log Out Help/Instructions Help    
New Posts New Posts Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Posting is restricted to registered board members only to prevent spamming of the board. We regret the necessity of this action, but hope you will appreciate the importance of the integrity of the board. Registration is free and information provided during the process will not be submitted to third parties.

P & E Treatment

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » P & E Treatment « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Tammy Jessen
Neonate
Username: Jessentn

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 08:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos;

I decided to do the P&E 10 day regiment on my mare to help ensure the best success in planning out her breeding time line. She has had one good heat cycle so far this spring. To be brief, she was injected with P&E at same time everyday and on day 10 she was given the PFG2a in addition to P&E. I took her to vet for ultrasound on day 6 post PFG2a (showing no signs of heat) and she had a follicle at 1.6cm LOL! At day 7 still not signs of heat and I have yet to tease her this morning at day 8 to see where she is at. What do you think is happening with her. Have you seen this in your experience with P&E. My vet said it's a bit atypical. I am guessing if she progresses it will be Friday/Saturday (day 10/11) before she has a follicle at 3.5cm. Your thoughts?? Please. :-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1894
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

80% of mares will have a 3.5 cm follicle by day 18. That means that there are still 20% that won't. Nothing is absolute...

You noted that your mare had "one good heat cycle" prior to treatment, but did you actually confirm ovulation? The occurrence of estrus/diestrus behaviour early in the year does not guarantee ovulation.

It is possible though that you are an unfortunate statistical equilibrator.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
 

Tammy Jessen
Neonate
Username: Jessentn

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 02:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great...guess you pointed out the obvious. It is always wonderful to be the statistical equilibrator..someone has to be. Your right, I didn't check her ovulation status so from what I gather from what you wrote she may still be in the transitional phase. Don't want to put you on the spot, but would you recommend me waiting until a little later in May to give her more time to cycle normally before trying to breed her for best chance of success.

Thank you so much for your opinion. :-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1897
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 06:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mares bred in the height of the (natural) breeding season will always get and stay pregnant with greater ease than those that are bred early in the year. If timing of foaling is not an issue, I certainly like to breed in May/June.

Always confirm ovulation on a prior cycle prior to using P&E. Hopefully this won't be the case, but there have been incidences of mares "shutting down" if it's used prior to that first ovulation (see our article about P&E for more details on its use).

Can't really offer more than that... :-)
 

Tammy Jessen
Neonate
Username: Jessentn

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess I overlooked the little (o.k. not so little) detail of ovulation confirmation. I incorrectly assumed seeing her cycle would be sufficient...mistake! Live and learn.Urg!

Thanks for your input Jos ...I will let you know how she plays out.
 

Tammy Jessen
Neonate
Username: Jessentn

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok. Update - just notice my mare showing heat to me and my little teaser stallion today. She has been interested in him last couple of days but urinating today when actually teased. Anyway, hopefully that means I didn't screw her up. Any explanation on why she is coming in now after her P & E treatment. Going to ultrasound her tomorrow. Cross your fingers for me that this is a good cycle. :-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1920
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 11:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What formulation of P&E did you get?
 

Tammy Jessen
Neonate
Username: Jessentn

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Progesterone/Estradiol 17beta 150mg/ml-10mg/ml
Since the vet got it for me I don't know if it is the estradiol cypionate or benzoate.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1922
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As long as it is estradiol 17β, then you are fine. The other estradiols (cypionate or benzoate) are not the same as 17β. It does however sound like a response that would be more commonly seen with one of the other estradiols...

There is still the possibility that she was transitional when started - and it will not produce reliable results in anestrus or transitional mares.

Or there's still that statistical equilibrator to think about... :-(
 

Tammy Jessen
Neonate
Username: Jessentn

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 08:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, she has a nice big 4.4cm follicle on the right ovary with medium softness. Nice relaxed vulva and showing to anything that touches her. We're checking her in the morning then flying in the good stuff tomorrow if she is still holding on to it.

Fingers crossed .....maybe this statistical outlier with still get bred after all. :-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1923
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seems reasonable - after all it is nearly the weekend!!!
 

Donna Daily
Neonate
Username: Missy

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 10:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos,
I am having my vet write a RX for P&E. I went to the suggest Pharmacy but there were many choices. Could you tell me exactly which one you recommend.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1941
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have had good success with the P&E from BET Pharm in Lexington, KY.

If you follow that link to their web site, and then go to "ordering" on their menu at the left, you can download and print out a form for "Reproductive Compounds" that your vet will need to sign. You then fax it to the number on that page.

If you are asking which product that you need to order from BET Pharm, then presuming you are treating one mare and desire the daily dose P&E, then you want the "P+ in Oil (P4 50 mg/mL + E2 3.3 mg/mL) 30mL".
 

Donna Daily
Neonate
Username: Missy

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Jos! I would use this for 10 days, 10cc on a 1100 lb mare so would I need 4 bottles?
 

Donna Daily
Neonate
Username: Missy

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 11:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correctin Jos, I would need to order the 100ml bottle for 10 dosages, yes?
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 280
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Donna with the formulation they have you would give 3ml daily so one 30 ml bottle would do the entire regimine for one mare.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1947
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 06:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy is correct.

The daily dosage is 150 mg P4 and 10 mg E2, so when formulated at 50 and 10 mg/ml respectively, you would give 3-ml per day, so 30 ml per mare per cycle.
 

Donna Daily
Nursing Foal
Username: Missy

Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 07:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Cathy and Jos!



Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
IMV Technologies - makers of Equine AI Equipment
Equine A.I. Equipment Supplies
Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your Veterinary Ultrasounding Needs
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Exodus Breeders Supply - Your one-stop shop for all your reproductive needs!
Exodus Breeders Supply
Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products!
Reproduction Resources: Specializing in Artificial Breeding and Embryo Transfer Supplies
Specializing in Artificial Breeding and ET Supplies
BET Pharm: Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
  International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary Information Service
 

MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | SERVICES
FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS | LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD
SITEMAP | CONTACT US