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Aaaghhh when will the "CL" go away?!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Aaaghhh when will the "CL" go away?! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Mood Swings
Yearling
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 100
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My maiden had a good heat at the beginning of February. It was suggested that I should leave her to cycle naturally versus short cycling her. I am now regretting that decision :o

Because of the bad weather and staffing the teaser (he is stabled at another farm) has been unable to "visit" lol so I have had to rely on ultrasound. The mare has not come back into heat since early Feb. She has two good sized follicles but a CL on the right that apparently has no intention of going anywhere soon! I have been having her checked every few days or so. How long can this possibly go own? She has a very short coat and has been under lights since December. Thanks - it is getting a tad expensive but I am afraid of missing it!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1760
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A CL (or rather the remnants of luteal tissue) may be still visible on ultrasound, and yet not secreting progesterone. You may want to either perform a blood-progesterone assay to confirm luteal action (elevated progesterone = luteal action); and/or use prostaglandin on the mare to destroy any active luteal tissue.

Note that the CL is not relative to transitional phase, in that once the mare has ovulated, and there is therefore a CL present, transitional phase is over. Your reference to the short coat is suggestive that you are linking the condition of the mare to transitional phase or winter anestrus.
 

Mood Swings
Breeding Stock
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 102
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks JOS :-)

My vet hesitated at giving her progesterone in the chance that she will ovulate without coming into heat. If I had a blood-progesterone assay performed what will that tell me? How long can something like this go on? She has been getting u/s since Feb.25th and there is no change. I think I will send her to the breeding farm early so they can keep an eye on her.

Appreciate your time :-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1764
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 01:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As noted above, an elevated progesterone level indicates the presence of a functional CL, and hence one that is potentially receptive to prostaglandin use (did you mean "prostaglandin" rather then "progesterone" in your last post by any chance?).

If you can't say for certain whether that truly was luteal tissue (a CL) present on the ultrasound image, then you can't say for sure that she's not transitional.

If it were me, I'd start by confirming the definitive presence of a functional CL, and if there is one, give prostaglandin.
 

Mood Swings
Breeding Stock
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 103
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 08:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks again! Yes I did mean prostaglandin oops!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1765
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your vets concern about giving prostaglandin and having the mare come into estrus rapidly, or not at all (and ovulating) is valid if there is a follicle >2cm in diameter present at the time of administration.

However, right now, you don't have any estrus at all, so treating and having her come into estrus or ovulate without coming into estrus will give you a starting point even if you don't breed her on that cycle!
 

Mood Swings
Breeding Stock
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 104
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos, my apologies for not giving all of the information. My mare did/does have two follicles on the left (they both measure 3cm - 3 1/2cm), he administered prostaglandin yesterday and will recheck her in a few days as there was still no change. I'll post an update :-)
 

Mood Swings
Breeding Stock
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 109
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The vet checked her again this afternoon. She is in heat - yeah! She still has two follicles on the left (one is 3.7cm). She is a maiden and for whatever reason she now has alot of fluid after getting the prostaglandin on the 17th. She has been started on oxytocin and will be going to the shed either tomorrow or Saturday :-)

I am glad she was given the prostaglandin! Thanks for your advice :-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1773
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 08:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If she's already at a 3.7, I would get her to the stallion ASAP and breed her - worst thing that will happen is you have to breed her again, but having received the Prostaglandin F she may ovulate more rapidly, and if you don't get her bred quickly, you could end up missing her ovulation.
 

Mood Swings
Breeding Stock
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 110
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I am happy to say that it was a Good Friday for my mare and the stallion! lol I had her shipped there today so their farm vet could u/s her and just as you said she moved very quickly! She was a 4.8!!
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1280
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 11:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congratulations Mood Swings! Pregnant vibes your way!
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1177
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 08:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's fantastic news Mood Swings, I too hope she gets pregnant first time around. I have two mares to breed this spring, one is a 4 year old maiden and the other a 9 year old mare that I wasn't fortunate enough to get pregnant last year.

I just had the vet out to do cytology, uterian smear and biopsy done. Hopefully the test results come back clean, so we can start breeding in a month or so.

Please let us know when you find out, if she took or not. Good luck!
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1287
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mariylyn, Hope so much that you have a great breeding season this year. You deserve it after last years heartaches. Are you going to use the drug "Settle"?
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1180
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 07:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Jan, it means alot to me to read your well wishes, and that you remembered the whole ordeal from last year. Bless your heart!

I used Settle on Marq twice last year, and it didn't work. But Dora did become pregnant, so I think I probably will. I think Marq's problem was that she wasn't in good physical condition last year, but she is in excellent condition this year. So I think that could have been a factor. We'll see. :-) Thanks again for being so thoughtful.
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1295
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 12:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry about the misspell on your name...:-) Will settle stand by their product if you breed Marq for a third time? Are you just breeding Marq or that other mare you got too? Are you going to rebreed Dora on her foal heat?
 

Mood Swings
Breeding Stock
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Woohoo! Must have been all the well wishes! She is pregnant, it's a whopper too - 2.47cm :-)
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 1114
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 03:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congratulations!
 

Bonny
Yearling
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 52
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 08:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats great news!! Congrats!
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1375
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 11:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was a Good Friday!!!
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1254
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lucky you!! I know how aggrevated you were, but in the long run it worked out for you. I hope I'm so lucky. :-)
 

Mood Swings
Breeding Stock
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks everyone :-)



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