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Is Regumate required in multiple pregnancies?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Is Regumate required in multiple pregnancies? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 474
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am a little confused on the use of Regumate. I heard once your mare has used Regumate to hold onto a pregnancy because of a progestrone issue, that she will always have to use Regumate with her future pregnancies. Kinda like a Regumate junkie, (so to speak). Is that correct? Or does progestrone needs change with each pregnancy.

The mare I'm talking about (call her #1 mare) is 15 years old and is presently 3 months pregnant. The vet wants her to stay on Regumate for another 2 months. At 5 months we'll test her levels and see if she can go off at that time.

I also have another mare (call her #2 mare) whose 9 years old, that had 3 previous births. When she was bred this past late summer, she was put on Regumate two weeks before she was bred, taken off for a few days before being bred, then back on a few days after she was bred for another 16 days. When she was confirmed, not in foal, she was taken off of Regumate. This mare never had a progestrone test to see what her need was, the breeder did this because she was not getting pregnant and said this sometimes helps and wouldn't hurt her. Would this make her now need Regumate in the future pregnancies?

I've been wondering about this for a long time now, and decided to ask.

Thank you, Marilyn
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 348
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marilyn, I'm not sure about Mare #1 but for Mare #2 you will not always need Regumate unless she does have a legit progesterone problem. One of my mares didn't conceive so the next cycle my vet put her on Regumate until her pregnancy was confirmed. The next two times I bred her we didn't use Regumate at all and she had 2 healthy fillies :-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1633
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

  • Regumate causes a negative feedback loop to be kicked into gear for endogenous progestin production;
    • While the mare is receiving an exogenous progestin (Regumate) her own progestin secretion will be somewhat suppressed.
  • By 5 months of pregnancy, progesterone levels should be dropping, and by 210 days will be just about zero;
    • This means that testing levels at 150 days to determine the "need" for continued "supplementation" will almost certainly indicate a "need" for that "supplementation" - even though you don't;
    • If your vet is truly recommending this, you may want to consult another vet that is better versed in the hormone profiles of pregnant mares.
  • Most mares don't need Regumate in the first place (follow that link for more details), and it is one of the most over-prescribed drugs in equine reproduction.
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 497
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 01:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also Jos, isn't it true that you can't test progesterone levels when on Regumate but in fact they need to be off of it for like a week or ten days to get a correct level, and if they indeed need Regumate and they are taken off of it for this period they could in fact slip.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1635
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 03:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regumate is a synthetic progestin and will not assay as progesterone. Hence - with the above proviso in mind that Regumate use will suppress endogenous progestin production - accuracy of a blood-progesterone assay run on a mare that is receiving Regumate will not be impacted otherwise by the Regumate itself as they are not the same thing.
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 499
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess my brain was clouded with the visions of sugarplums or something, I got P4 and Regumate confused, never listen to me on days where I eat more in one hour than I do the entire week!
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 296
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 01:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi i hope you dont mind me butting in but i think my question is kind of relevant..I had a mare last year(one of many mares) who started dripping milk at about 8 and a half to 9 months, she also showed signs of digging up her bed and really behaved quite strange...i called my vet and he said the cervix was closed but put her on progesterone tablets called synchro something, my question is..what would have happened without the drug (she had a week late healthy colt in the end) and is there any reason she will need it again in this pregnancy..she is now nearly 8 months and i am a bit nervous that it will happen again!!???
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 479
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for your replies. Does it hurt the mare to keep her on Regumate for another two months?

I will make a point to ask the vet at 5 months when he takes a progestrone test, if he is taking in consideration that the levels would normally be dropping at that time.

Thanks again for the help!

Marilyn
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1636
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saffron: It sounds as thought your mare may have had "placentitis", and whether it will happen again will depend upon what actually caused it in the first place. Hopefully your vet carefully evaluated the cervix during the pre-breeding examination? One of the causes of placentitis is cervical damage (often from a prior foaling) that allows pathogenic access into the uterus during pregnancy when the cervix should be tightly closed. I'm not sure exactly what the drug was that your vet used, but if it was "Synchromate-B" (an implant containing a synthetic progesterone, Norgestomet), that product has not been shown to be able to maintain pregnancies in the equine, so perhaps the problem your mare had wasn't as bad as you thought... :-)

Marilyn: It probably won't hurt anything but your bank account to keep the mare on the Regumate, but if it were me, I wouldn't even bother with a progesterone assay at 5 months, it's just a waste of money, and you may (will probably) be told to keep the mare on the Regumate "because of low levels" - wasting more of your money - even though levels should be low at that point.
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 297
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 03:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, she showed no evidence of cervical damage and was totally checked prior to breeding, i am just hoping we dont have the same problem again this year!!(although i must say maybe it is more a problem for me than her, because she foaled normally..a beautiful colt)
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 481
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos, I value your opinion and appreciate your comments. I will definately keep that in mind.



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