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2 mares not settling, Help!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » 2 mares not settling, Help! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Chris J
Neonate
Username: Nwind2

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 03:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have 2 mare that are giving me problems.
First is 17 yrs. old, has always been hard to get in foal, first foal did post breeding infusion, 2nd foal post breeding oxytocin. Culture came back negative.

2nd mare is 15yrs. old. Vet checked for pregnacy, not in foal has small amount of fluid he said she should get rid of it when she comes into heat. Culture was also negative.

Both mare have not had a foal in about 7 years.
1st mare was bred last year, no luck.
2nd mare, this is first time being bred since last foal. Any suggestions?

I have read the oxytocin protical, what is the dosage in cc's, and should I do pre or post breeding or both?

(Message edited by nwind2 on August 29, 2007)
 

Marilyn Lemke
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 135
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 08:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, I hope you find a resolution to your problem. I've been dealing with the same thing for two years now, it's no fun!

Good luck to you, Marilyn
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1533
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Start with a good breeding soundness examination performed by a veterinarian that specialises in equine reproduction - preferably a theriogenologist. Note that a uterine swab culture alone is unreliable as an indicator of the uterine pathogenic status - a cytology smear should be performed that supports the culture findings. With the age and status of these mares, I would actually look at performing a biopsy and culture rather than a swab.

Delayed uterine clearance is decidedly a possible issue, again given the age and status of the mares. Use of the oxytocin protocol is almost certainly warranted. Evaluation of the uterus with ultrasound pre- peri- and post-breeding is required. Read the articles about breeding the older maiden mare and the dirty mare - while these descriptions may not apply specifically to your mares, I think that use of at least some of the protocols described therein will prove of value.

Once cannot convert IU (international units) to cc's or ml's. That's like saying "how many miles in an acre" - they are completely different measurements. Read the outside of the bottle of oxytocin and you will see somewhere an indication of how many IU/ml are in that particular product.
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 640
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos for answering Chirs...I was hoping you would give your expertise. Your advice is why I have my beautiful little filly! The only other thing that I used and since we used it only the 1 time for my mare last year on AI and it worked so it is 100% for me :-) is the drug Settle. My vet has gone on to use it on several other older mares and has had success with it. In laymans terms I believe it amps up the immune system to help the mare clear. We also followed Jos Oxytocin protocol (I printed it out and gave it to my vet :-)) and of course started with a cytoloty and culture to make sure we were starting with a clean enviroment. I wish you the best of luck! Jan
http://www.expectbetterresults.com/
 

Marilyn Lemke
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 137
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can I ask a stupid question please. How does one go about finding a Theiogenologist in one's area? I live in Northwest Indiana, I'm not sure how to locate one?

Thanks, Marilyn
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1534
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Search here.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1536
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Settle" has been shown to be beneficial if one is dealing with Streptococcus equi sub. zooepidemicus. In fact people were using Equimune years before Settle became available. It is questionable if there is a benefit beyond that. The use of oxytocin and lavages is going to be cheaper and in many cases just as effective.
 

Laurie A Beltran
Yearling
Username: Prophecy_ranch

Post Number: 52
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mariln,
Thanks for asking! I was thinking of the same thing, where does one find a Theiogenologist in San Diego? Thanks.....LB
 

Marilyn Lemke
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 139
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No problem Laurie. I was going to ask a long time ago, but felt too stupid to ask. But now that I think I may be needing one, I figured I'd better bite the bullet and ask.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1539
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Follow the above link and do a search....
 

Chris J
Neonate
Username: Nwind2

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 07:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

update
Mare 1, Came into heat Aug. 26th, bred her on the 27th, and 29th Followed by Oxytocin 4 hours after breeding. We work 2nd so nobody is around to give rest of shots six hours apart, so did it when we got home from work. Was out of heat on Aug. 30th. Did a post-breeding infusion on Aug 31.

Mare 2, Came into heat on Aug.27th. Bred her on the 28th, and 30th. Gave Oxytocin, just like above mare. Due to Sunday and holiday hours, and Vet not wanting to come back out, and I not wanting higher vet fees. We gave her a shot of HcG, and did postbreeding infusion on the 31st, along with oxytocin shot right away, and one 6 hours later. Gave HcG hoping mare would go out of heat but on Sunday she was still in heat, we did breed her, and gave oxytocin, 4 hours after breeding, and then 6 hours later. Will the infusion early, inhibit her from getting pregnant, or cause any harm? .
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1546
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Remember that the mare ovulates 24-48 hours before ceasing to be receptive to the stallion. This is because the CL - formed in the space left behind by the ovulated follicle - secretes progesterone, and it is that hormone that causes resistance to the stallion's advances, but levels will not be elevated enough until about 24-48 hours after formation of the CL to cause that resistance.

On the lavage - what did you use? It will have a huge impact on what the results are. If LRS, then you are OK - it can be used up to 30 minutes prior to breeding without negative impact on fertility. Saline will probably be OK - it is a little more irritating. If you used antibiotics in the lavage, a lot will depend on the antibiotic used.

Don't forget if you are not going to be available within the first 24 hours after ovulation to give oxytocin that you can use cloprostenol ("Estrumate") once every 12 hours. It is not recommended after 24 hours post-ovulation, but prior to that can be a useful sleep-saver.
 

Chris J
Neonate
Username: Nwind2

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vet said she used ampicillin, oxytocin was given immediately, and 6 hours later. Mare was bred 27 hours after infusion.
Is there any truth in urine being cloudy before ovulation, then clears after. As this mare was very cloudy before infusion, and then clear when we bred her on Sunday?
I will have to remember cloprostenol ("Estrumate") for next year.

(Message edited by nwind2 on September 04, 2007)



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