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Anything else to try?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Anything else to try? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 213
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So I've been trying to get this mare knocked up for three years now.

She biopsied IIa when we first started trying, she has had 5 foals previously. She had an infection/irritant that went undetected by vet #1, and she had clear fluid in her uterus from the first AI attempt.

Switched to vet #2, got the fluid cleared up--basically took all of year two. Never got a culture on what it was, but her neutrophils went away and she is no longer holding fluid.

So year #3, long story short, we got one attempt at breeding. She was preggo at 15 days, with a very small amount of fluid in the body of the uterus. (We did the oxytocin protocol for the full three days, and stood her on an incline to encourage draining). Progesterone testing indicated that she needed supplementation (yes we did more than one test). She was on progesterone supplementation from day 6 forward.

U/S at 25 days found no pregnancy.

Any feelings on how to proceed? I know one try for a season is not diffinative. And it has been just the one try since we got her 'dry'. She has concieved on every AI attempt but 1 (5 for 6). She shows a good conceptsus days 15-18, but by day 23 we are losing it--we have never gotten a heartbeat.

I have requested another biopsy. She appears in good health to the vet. Blood work has come back normal, thyroid has come back normal, blood glucose has come back normal. We have tested multiple times on all of these things.

Any other tests to do?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1499
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How old is the mare?

How much uterine fluid are you seeing?

Clear fluid per u/s is indicative of sterile fluid, not fluid caused by a pathogen;

Fluid presence during estrus may require oxytocin therapy throughout estrus, not just post-breeding;

Have you lavaged post-breeding? If so, with what?

Have you used intra-uterine antibiotics in a post-breeding infusion/lavage? If so, what?

Some mares may require some treatment with Estrumate (bid up to 24 hours after ovulation) in addition to oxytocin therapy in order to assist in uterine drainage;

Regumate would be contra-indicated for a mare that has uterine fluid present as it reduces the uterine ability to absorb fluid;

How may progesterone assays did you have performed and at what intervals?

How "low" is low progesterone?

There is strong evidence that uterine irritants (for example post-breeding fluid) cause prostaglandin release that impacts the ability of the CL to produce adequate levels of progesterone. It is therefore better (and cheaper!!) to clear the fluid than supplement progesterone.

A biopsy is not really going to tell you anything relative to pregnancy loss prior to 25 days unless it indicates inflammatory cell presence (and therefore an irritant). Poor endometrial condition is more commonly associated with pregnancy loss after 30-35 days.

Has the mare's cervix been evaluated for damage/competency?

Does the mare require/have a Caslick's procedure?
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 214
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She is 14 this year.

How much uterine fluid are you seeing? This breeding it was less than 0.5cm.

Clear fluid per u/s is indicative of sterile fluid, not fluid caused by a pathogen; Previously when we did cytology on the culture swabs, there were large amounts of neutrophils. We did two lavage series, and that took care of the fluid and neutrophils.

Fluid presence during estrus may require oxytocin therapy throughout estrus, not just post-breeding; She remains 'dry' on non breeding cycles.

Have you lavaged post-breeding? If so, with what? No.

Have you used intra-uterine antibiotics in a post-breeding infusion/lavage? If so, what? No.

Some mares may require some treatment with Estrumate (bid up to 24 hours after ovulation) in addition to oxytocin therapy in order to assist in uterine drainage; I have discussed trying this with my vet for next year.

Regumate would be contra-indicated for a mare that has uterine fluid present as it reduces the uterine ability to absorb fluid; She does not have fluid present on non-breeding cycles.

How may progesterone assays did you have performed and at what intervals? We did 4 tests.

How "low" is low progesterone? 1.4-1.9

There is strong evidence that uterine irritants (for example post-breeding fluid) cause prostaglandin release that impacts the ability of the CL to produce adequate levels of progesterone. It is therefore better (and cheaper!!) to clear the fluid than supplement progesterone. I know, but with the progesterone numbers we have been getting, I don't think there's a choice.

A biopsy is not really going to tell you anything relative to pregnancy loss prior to 25 days unless it indicates inflammatory cell presence (and therefore an irritant). Poor endometrial condition is more commonly associated with pregnancy loss after 30-35 days.

Has the mare's cervix been evaluated for damage/competency? Cervix is always very tight when not in heat. She does close quickly after ovulation, by 2.5 days post ovulation she is closed.

Does the mare require/have a Caslick's procedure? No, she has excellent repro conformation.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1501
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Under normal circumstances, <2.5 cm of fluid is usually controllable with use of oxytocin alone. It may be though that in this situation you would also want to lavage post breeding. We will usually lavage with with either LRS or Saline on the day after breeding, using 1-2 (or sometimes more) litres (depending upon mare size and if the fluid being returned is clear). The mare receives oxytocin at the end of the lavage (while still draining).

The reference to not using Regumate in the presence of fluid was in connection with a breeding cycle, not a non-breeding cycle. If there is fluid present then Regumate will suppress clearance (absorption after about 3 days) and therefore create more of a problem.

How were the samples handled for your progesterone assay, when was the blood drawn (how many days post-ovulation), where were the tests done, and with what sort of assay? I would want to rule out a problem in those areas, as those levels are abnormal for a diestrus mare.

Evaluation of the cervix during diestrus is not really adequate. It needs to be evaluated manually for damage during estrus, and even then an inexperienced evaluator may miss damage. It sometimes doesn't take much damage to cause cervical imcompetency.

Have you been breeding to the same stallion each time? There could be a stallion incompatibility issue, although that usually manifests as failure of establishment of pregnancy and you indicate that you did get a pregnancy, but it might be worth considering if it has been the same stallion all along.



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