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"hiding embyo" condition?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » "hiding embyo" condition? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

carole whelan
Neonate
Username: Milmom

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 06:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recently used the recommended P & E protocol to breed 2 mares, one with frozen, one with fresh. Everything went right on schedule. Neither mare had come back in heat by 18 days post last insemination, when they were ultra sounded and declared "not in foal". One mare shows no new follicle development, one mare shows a 35 mm follicle with no endometrial folds. Neither mare displays any sign of heat. It is now day 23 post last insemination and still no sign of heat in either mare. In fact, they have that "progesterone look" : total contentment and relaxation and total disinterest in the stallion.
I recently heard of "hiding embryo", where the pregnancy is not detectable as expected by early ultra sound. The plan is to wait a week and ultra sound again. Your opinion?
 

Teresa Byersdorf
Weanling
Username: Bravehart

Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mares would not have come back into heat by 18 days post insemination as a regular heat cycle is more than 18 days apart. What is the usual cycle on your mares? Mine is generally about 23-24 days on average..sometimes a bit longer. The US could have missed the pregnancy..it does happen..but I would not count on it....
 

carole whelan
Neonate
Username: Milmom

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 07:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But I am calculating from the end of one cycle to the onset of the next, The average cycle being 21 days from day one to day one, with 5 days heat, it should be 15 days from the end of cycle to the onset of next. Even given some extra days for individual differences, these mares should be back in heat.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1482
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are correct in your expectation of a return to estrus 14-16 days after the previous insemination/ovulation. The fact that mares have not come back into estrus is suggestive of either pregnancy or EED. I would certainly recheck them thoroughly before doing anything radical (like PGF2a)!

I prefer to refer to situations such as this as "missed" embryos rather than "hidden" - they are there is they're looked for correctly!!!! :-) The only exception might be in a mare that has a lot of cysts where it is difficult to differentiate between cyst and conceptus.
 

carole whelan
Neonate
Username: Milmom

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If it is EED, can I expect the mares to begin cycling normally, in around 15 days from the EED, or would it take longer? I would like to wait for what is a reasonable amount of time to expect them to show signs of heat following EED, then U/S after that. At 25 days post breeding, 12 days post U/S, they show no sign of heat.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1487
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mares that delay onset of subsequent estrus following EED are a little unpredictable in timing. It may be that they will only delay the number of days after day ~14 that they EED'd, or they may remain in di/anestrus longer if there is not a subsequent wave of follicles on the go. All you can do is follow them.

I'd certainly have these mares checked again though.



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