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Photo attached - what are these follicles doing?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Photo attached - what are these follicles doing? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Rachael W
Nursing Foal
Username: Lee

Post Number: 12
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still trying to breed a mare. I short cycled her with estrumate (was advised to give her .2ml x 2 days). She started teasing again almost immediately, and developed what was looking like a good follicle on the right which went to a 42 and then disappeared yesterday (8 days after the 1st shot of estrumate). She generally goes to a 50 so I assumed that I missed it. I checked her this AM to see what I could see and it looks like she has a CL on the rt - but there is also follicles on both sides that look like this picture that I am attaching. What are they doing?
I have bred her 2x already this year, I had her cultured and cytology done on the 3rd cycle (all came back normal). As her uterine tone wasn't very good and I wasn't going to try frozen again when it was looking iffy.
She had 3 foals in a row and last year developed a heamorhgic (sp?) in July that didn't go away until October. I didn't use anything to try and make it go away either though. But she developed this after giving her lutalyse last year to short cycle her.

Could it be possible that the prostoglandins are making her react this way?
Is there anything you can recommend for me to do at this point?

I checked her at 8AM today and then 4 hrs later and I think that the shapes are increasing in size not decreasing and the heavy white outline is becoming thicker. What they look like are follicles that are in the midst of ovulating - but they are coming out of nowhere at this point because neither of the structures that I am seeing were there yesterday. Help?

http://www.laprairieaire.com/uploads/photos/web/128-1.jpg?280854636
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1465
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 08:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The image isn't really good enough to say for sure what it is, especially not being in "real time", but it looks somewhat like a recently ovulated follicle that is developing luteal tissue, or it could be an hemorrhagic follicle, although it rapidly developing the thickened borders would be a little unusual. If you have more (better) images that you would like to post, we can see if we can make out anything else! My money at this point would be the recent ovulation though. Don't know what to tell you about them apparently appearing out of nowhere... but they did come from somewhere, so I am left with a sneaking suspicion that perhaps they got missed somewhere somehow... :-)

The prostaglandin would not be having a negative impact. Mare's release prostaglandin themselves in order to cycle regularly...
 

Rachael W
Nursing Foal
Username: Lee

Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 12:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I uploaded the photo again - it is a bit higher resolution. You can faintly see a thread across the structure reminiscent of photos I have seen of hemoraghic follicles.
I agree that it looks like a recently ovulated follicle. But they have remained that size all day. I have scanned the mare several times today and they are not shrinking. My experience has been that the vacuation of the follicle is over in minutes. This is going on for over 14 hrs at this point.
She had a follicle that did ovulate on the right side and I had been tracking it for several days. She had another smaller 28mm follicle on the left side that is still sitting there. Now - she has these shrunken follicles with the thick white edges on both left and right side and they are not related to the follicles that I had been tracking. There had previously been no other follicles of this size on either her left or right ovary the previous day.
Any idea what would be causing this and is this another variation on a hemoraghic follicle?
Thanks
 

Rachael W
Nursing Foal
Username: Lee

Post Number: 14
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will get more photos tomorrow - really hoping there is nothing to photograph at that point!!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1466
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While a follicle evacuates fairly rapidly during ovulation, one can have the formation of a corpus hemorrhagicum prior to the true CL. The central black area in those is blood-filled rather than follicular fluid, and this is I suspect what you are seeing - although I have to add the caveat again that not being in "real time" mode, it's hard to confirm.
 

Rachael W
Nursing Foal
Username: Lee

Post Number: 15
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I checked her again this morning. The central black area has enlarged significantly on both left and right ovary(>40mm) and looks as if it has multiple follicles inside of the black area - or these are white strands - but they are spherical in shape inside the irregular shape that I took the photo of yesterday. The thick white edge has remained. I can see the CL on the right side where she did ovulate. It looks as if this is a second wave of follicles (almost) but they are not solid black - there are faint white lines in the irregular shaped black area.

I will continue to follow this - but what can I do to get her on a straight normal cycle? Would the P & E work in a situation like this? Do some mares react to the decreasing daylight faster than others and so effects their cycles?

I didn't take more photos as the quality doesn't seem to help the situation.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1467
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 01:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Without really knowing what the situation is, it's kinda hard to tell you if P&E would work... :-) There would certainly be an advantage to trying, in that it will give you (hopefully) a better time-line, and also flatten out any current ovarian activity, but note that if this (these) is/are truly hemorrhagic follicles, the P&E will not impact them.

It's unlikely that there is a link to daylight length so rapidly after the summer solstice, as I would not normally expect to see an impact for another month or so at the earliest - but again, there are always variables, so best not to rule anything out until you have a definitive fix on what's happening.
 

Rachael W
Nursing Foal
Username: Lee

Post Number: 16
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would you advise to do nothing until I have watched more of what this progression is going to unfold to be?

I am uncertain as to throwing more hormones at the situation.

Is there any other information that you need in order to assess this?

Time line:
Ovulated July 11th - uterine not good so didn't breed on that cycle
July 17th and 18th gave her .2ml estrumate.
July 25/26 ovulated.
July 27 odd shaped thick white outlined follicles developing
July 28 - these follicles are growing.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1468
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As you observe, your best bet is probably to leave well alone and see what happens. The hormones (being natural) probably would not do any harm, but they may not be beneficial either.

Without actually being able to evaluate the animal it is really impossible for me to give a reliable opinion as to what may be going on - and without knowing what is going on, it is impossible to make suggestions as to what would be best to do...!

You probably need to either wait and see, or to have a veterinarian experienced in equine reproduction actually put their arm/probe into her.



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