MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
SITE MAP OF EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
CONTACT US

horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
Go to the articles page
 
Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
 
Topics Page Topics Page Register for a new account Register Edit Profile Profile Log Out Log Out Help/Instructions Help    
New Posts New Posts Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Posting is restricted to registered board members only to prevent spamming of the board. We regret the necessity of this action, but hope you will appreciate the importance of the integrity of the board. Registration is free and information provided during the process will not be submitted to third parties.

Question about Lutalyse and Timing

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Question about Lutalyse and Timing « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 187
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 09:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Monday May 14th Stern had a 3.5, Ruby a 4.0. I couldn't get time off to meet the vet the next day, so we decided to short cycle so I could put in for vacation time.

Knowing the mares history, Stern would have ovulated the afternoon of the 15th, and Ruby by the morning of the 16th.

To get them to ovulate the week of the 28th, preferable Wed/Thurs (30/31st). I should have given Lutalyse the 21st and 22nd, right?

My vet says to wait until the 26th and she will chack them on the 29th? Are they going to have >3.0 follices at 10 days post ovulation?

Please tell me my vet is right...and that she hasn't wasted another cycle (and a week of my vacation time).
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 236
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rule of thumb I go by is they will be breedable 5 to 7 days post shot and ovulate a day after that. I give deslorelin to induce ovulation since I only get one shot to breed.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1325
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You cannot reliably predict the time of ovulations using prostaglandin. The average time to ovulation is 7-9 days after treatment, but that is entirely dependent upon what was present on the ovaries at the time it was given. Variations may be as little as less than 24 hours through to 21 days.

Read the article about prostaglandin use on thi web site for a more detailed explanation.
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 188
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't it 9.5 days if the follicle is <3.0cm.

And 3-5 days if the follicle is >3.0cm?

And Stern always goes slow on Lutalyse. She has to have the two doses two days in a row, and then count off of the second day.

I'm starting to sound like a royal tool to the stallion owners. They were transitional for so long, and now this.

I tried to get the vet on the phone yesterday, and talked to her briefly this morning, she was grouchy and said she needed their charts to be able to say anything.

I thought this was all planned, I have the Lut. at home already and made the farm call appointments with her standing there. I don't know what is going on now.
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 189
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They each had only one follicle getting ready to ovulate.

My teaser stallion said that they ovulated as expected.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1326
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those are only generalities. I (and many others) have seen mares ovulate in less than 24 hours, or go 21 days. As I said above, "you cannot reliably predict the time of ovulations using prostaglandin".

If you want greater reliability of timing use P&E.
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 190
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I told the vet to forget it, and we will check them on the 4th (21 days from the 14th) and hope for a repeat 3.5 and 4.0.

I think the article should state very clearly what you've said above. It 'seems' from the article that if you meet certain criteria that you can time off of prostaglandin.

Thanks for the help though!
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 240
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As with anything that deals with animals each drug varies per animal. It can only be a ballpark guess, in each mare it is different. For instance I gave prostin to two mares this year within a minute of one another one mare was breedable within 4 days the other was a week later. So there is no concrete in timing or reaction.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1328
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sharon - which article are you saying provides such insight suggesting prostaglandin to be so accurate?
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 191
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 09:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.equine-reproduction.com/articles/Prostaglandin.shtml

It says that if the follicle is <3.0 then ovulation usually occurs at 9.5 days.

It doesn't say, if the follicle is <3.0 the ovualtion can occur from 24 hours to 21 days, the average being 7-9 days.

I never would have considered using it alone if it stated the range with a <3.0 could be 1 to 21 days.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1330
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It doesn't say, if the follicle is <3.0 the ovulation can occur from 24 hours to 21 days because it won't.

If a follicle >3 cm is present at the time the prostaglandin F2a is administered, ovulation may occur in as little as 2-4 days4,5, (and occasionally less), whereas if the follicles are less than 3 cm, ovulation will usually occur about 9.5 days after treatment6. Another possible problem to be faced when dealing with a mare with a >3 cm follicle present is that in some cases, there will not be a rapid onset of estrus and ovulation, but rather a regression of the follicle, with a delayed onset of estrus.

The research cited is Lindenburg H, Koskinen E, Huhtinen M, Reilas T, Perttula H, Katila T. Influence of PG administration and follicle status on the number of conceptuses. who did indeed find that the average interval to ovulation with an ~ 3 cm follicle present was 9.5 days.

Note too that it says: "Follicles - if present - should be <3cm in diameter (and preferably <2 cm);

Also note that the title of the article is " I gave my mare Prostaglandin, but it didn't work! - in other words it's an explanatory article about why prostaglandin didn't work when people think it should have done. There is however an article entitled MONITORING AND MANIPULATING ESTRUS which would have been a more suitable topic to have looked under for information, and that references the use of P&E (about which there is another article in more detail) which is going to give a predictable ovulation in about 80% of cases to the day. If you are going to reference articles about any subject, then it is important that you reference the correct article! If you want information on a Ford engine, you will not look it up in an article about Harley Davidson engines!!!! :-)

Please also consider that you are dealing with animals, so there are also variables, and that your veterinarian who provided you with the prostaglandin is the person that would have been the one with whom to consult about your specific animal and your aims, and who is responsible for giving you the correct advice applicable to that specific animal and situation they are evaluating. An article on the Internet - any article - can only be a generality, not a specific.

You started this thread asking about preditability of ovulation when using prostaglandin, and a little over an hour after your original post I replied "You cannot reliably predict the time of ovulations using prostaglandin" which seems pretty clear... there should have been no surprises after if your mares didn't come into estrus predictably! :-)

Additionally, at the very top of the articles page there is a disclaimer that reads: Please Note: While we believe the information found on these pages to be accurate and up to date, it is provided here for informational purposes only, and is not intended to take the place of your veterinarian.

And we do, and it's not.
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 192
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 09:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Easy Jos, I'm not saying any of the information is wrong.

The article was on Prostaglandin use, I read it to make sure we weren't doing anything would make it not work.

My vet did not offer P&E as an option.

I took your advice about it not reliably predicting ovualtions, and did not adminster the drug.

I did read the other article, but the one I referenced actually mentioned ovulation times, which saved me all that math.

Listen Jos, I love your articles, I reference them all the time--I've read all of them. I find them to be accurate and concise. I'm just saying that it makes it seem a little more reliable on the timing than what you have posted your actual experience with it is. Just a little friendly feedback, not ill-ment.

Now if the stallion breeders would ship on the weekends it wouldn't matter.



Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
IMV Technologies - makers of Equine AI Equipment
Equine A.I. Equipment Supplies
Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your Veterinary Ultrasounding Needs
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Exodus Breeders Supply - Your one-stop shop for all your reproductive needs!
Exodus Breeders Supply
Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products!
Reproduction Resources: Specializing in Artificial Breeding and Embryo Transfer Supplies
Specializing in Artificial Breeding and ET Supplies
BET Pharm: Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
  International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary Information Service
 

MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | SERVICES
FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS | LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD
SITEMAP | CONTACT US