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Mares not ovulating....

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Mares not ovulating.... « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

foolforahorse
Neonate
Username: Foolforahorse

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the second year I am having this problem. Last year my mare foaled in January. The 30 day heat her follicle was hemoragic - thought not super huge maybe a 55, it did ovulate but she was not bred. Her following cycles for the year would start normally, she would get deslorelin and then the follicles stalled. They very slowly got bigger but they never ovulated. Now this year on her third cycke we started tracking her and she did the same exact thing. The real kicker is that we have another mare doing the same exact thing. She got the deslorlein on a 38 and has been teasing for over a week since and the follicle is a 48. This mare is across a lane from a gelding and breaks down whenever she looks at him.
Both of these mares have clean cultures cytology and are in excellent health and weight. They are not stressed and both have foaled before. They are 12 and 14 years old.
This next cycle i am not allowing the deslorelin to see if that could be the problem.
This is getting expensive....any ideas? They were both show horses (over 3 years ago) and had been on depo or regumate for years.
They are not on fescue but we do seed with a winter rye.
thank you, I am about to throw in the towel......
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1217
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I first have to wonder about the definition that is being used for "hemoragic", as the full descriptor for the prolem is an " Anovulatory Hemorrhagic Follicle" - in other words, the follicle does not ovulate, and yet you indicate that yours did - so it's not an "AHF" no matter how much it's called that...! :-)

This then leads one to look at the time of year - right now we are in transitional phase, and it is very normal for mares to produce sometimes large follicles and yet not ovulate on them - despite the use of ovulation induction agents like hCG and Deslorelin. Have you had them under lights, and if so for how long? Have you got confirmed ovulations?

If not, I'd be suspecting transitional phase...
 

foolforahorse
Neonate
Username: Foolforahorse

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi -
I also debate whether the hem. follicle was truly a hemorrhagic follicle. It was her 30 day cycle after foaling in January of last year and while the repro vet refused to breed her, stating hem. follicle, my vet at home checked her and said she had indeed ovulated. It was the only time she ovulated that whole season. We checked her well into June. She would cylcle, get des. and then stall.
I am in the south (it is 80 degrees) so mares are already on their third cycle. These two mares are showing a similar pattern as last year. Their cycle starts normally, they are given deslorelin on a 38+ and then the cycle stalls, they stay in a prolonged heat and never ovulate.
We are hemoraging money checking these two mares and they are not ovulating. I understand about transitional heat, but this went on all of last year as well. I am incredibly disappointed this year to find nothing changed. My vet has no answers and I cannot continue on for much longer.....

Is Immunall a worth while product? I hate spending money in desperation.

Thank you!
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 124
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where in the South are you? Maybe your issue is you need a new vet.
 

foolforahorse
Neonate
Username: Foolforahorse

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My vets are fine, I am not throwing them under the bus. :-) - I'm not sure how I can expect them to get a mare in foal that isn't ovulating. They just haven't had any ideas on how to get them to ovulate. I have two vets (at home and at the clinic) and one has a masters in equine reproduction.
The one year we got the 12 year old in foal for 2006, we ordered semen on Saturday, it arrived on Monday, she ovulated on Tuesday...and she never got a shot of delsorelin or the ovuplant.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 125
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 08:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guess I am lucky, I hav three vets who come to my farm and they all have a master in reproduction, in fact they just hired another vet to their practice and she has hers also. Ovuplant and deslorelin are the same drug, just different names. In order for a mare to ovulate from them the follicle must be at least a 20 mm if smaller it does not work, I have a lot of mares and have yet to have it fail me.
 

foolforahorse
Neonate
Username: Foolforahorse

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 09:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My question is what do I need to do to get these mares to ovulate???? What could be the problem if it isn't transitional and cultures/cytology are clean and mares are healthy. This problem is a carry over from all of last year. We were hoping the one mare just didn't want to be bred with a foal at her side. Thank you!

Thank you Cathy for trying to help - I am not a novice breeder nor are my vets. That is why we are all stumped by these mares.

Ovuplant is administered differently and from what I am told is no longer available. I just wanted to clarify that the mare didn't get an Ovuplant or have one left in....
The drugs have indeed failed me multiple times. And it is not from lack of knowledge or poor timing. My vets know what they are doing and don't give Deslorelin on anything smaller than a 35, and prefer a little bigger.
I prefer to send them out for frozen. But this year I am switching to fresh because of this problem.



(Message edited by foolforahorse on March 08, 2007)
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 126
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ovuplant the implant is no longer but it is now injectable and the chemical name is deslorelin. I have no idea why your mares are not ovulating, I would definately culture at the least. I culture every open mare every year sometimes a few times before they ever see a stud.
 

foolforahorse
Neonate
Username: Foolforahorse

Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would definately culture at the least.

I posted (twice) that our mares all have clean cultures and cytology.

I know about ovuplant and deslorelin. The year the mare did get in foal it was ovuplant that was being used but we didn't use anything on her that year.



(Message edited by foolforahorse on March 10, 2007)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1219
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One technical detail of clarification: :-)

Ovuplant and deslorelin are the same drug, just different names

That's only sorta kinda correct...

The drug in Ovuplant is Deslorelin, but the Deslorelin that is now being used that is obtained from BET Pharm has a different carrying agent that Ovuplant, and it was thought that the carrying agent was a contributor to the issues seen with Ovuplant relative to non-return to estrus if the mare was treated with Ovuplant and didn't get pregnant. The BET Pharm product does not have that issue, as although the active ingredient is the same, the carrying (biorelease) agent is not.

How are you confirming a lack of ovulation? Have you considered running progesterone assays (if you're not already doing that)? I think that I might start at that point, and absolutely confirm lack of ovulation - three weekly blood progesterone assays of the mare may be of great benefit.
 

Kristin Buchanan
Neonate
Username: Josiesfriend

Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I too am having the same problem with mares not ovulating, and we're shipping the semen for breeding, so it does get expensive. My mare has the same story as foolforahorse. She is getting the best of care under a reproductive specialist and a veterinarian. She had a size 30 mm follicle, went to a 40 mm., administered the HCG drug, went to a 38mm. the next day! and she is still 9 days later at a 45mm., what can we do to get her to ovulate! Thanks.
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 228
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kristin,

I am not an expert, but had a similar problem with my mare a few years back. What we found for whatever reason was that when we artificial brought her in she cycled stronger, was more predictable and settled nicely. Fingers crossed for a success for you! Jan
 

glenn newbury
Neonate
Username: Gtglenn

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You might try Immunall. I would think that it would at least be worth that at this point. I had three mares that weren't ovulating and after I put them on an aggressive dose of it they started to ovulate normally. I think you can get more information on sheridan creek tacks website. I really hope you the best of luck I know how disappointing this can be!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1377
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 07:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For more information (or rather a demonstration of the lack of it) about Immunall check out this thread on the board.

I would caution board members that there have been several posters who have suddenly appeared on this board as new members, praised Immunall and then mysteriously disappeared. There is a very strong restriction on advertising on this board - it's not the point of the board - and it bothers me that we may be getting "spammed" in this manner.

Do what you will with the Immunall lack of peer-reviewed and scientifically researched information. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it will get your mares pregnant, maybe it will just cost you money. But be aware that there is no scientifically proven research to support the claims made by some of these "ghost posters"...

And be equally cautious about the claims of anyone that spams, be it for drugs that will enhance libido in your husband or fertility in your horse...! :-)
 

kristen roberson
Neonate
Username: Tenis4kr

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting point but I do believe that this person seemed to have mentioned it in one of the posts and no one answered. Anyway it does honestly seem to be a weird year this year. One of my mares who has been bred many times before suddenly rejected the semen and for an unknown reason has a lot of inflamation with no infection. I wish you the best of luck but I wouldnt rule out diet
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1382
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 11:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of my mares who has been bred many times before suddenly rejected the semen and for an unknown reason has a lot of inflamation with no infection. There's absolutely nothing strange or unknown about that at all... :-)

As the mare's uterus gets more used and abused with the wear and tear of multiple pregnancies, it is likely to gradually lose it's ability to clear fluids. The condition is called "delayed uterine clearance", and is very predictable in older multiparous mares. It's why we use the oxytocin protocol in those mares.

For commentary on things being "weird this year" take a look at my post on the subject made on the EquineRepro@yahoogroups.com bulletin board... :-)



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