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Mare doing weird things

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 2 » Mare doing weird things « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Melody
Neonate
Username: Warner

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A new mare i purchased about 6 months ago has been showing weird signs to the stallion.

She is a 7 year old and had 3 foals. She has been covered about 26 days ago and seemed to stand well for cover. We tried to preg test her on 15 days after the last cover and she almost killed my property manager and the vet, so we cannot get her preg tested. I started teasing her on Day 16 and she has been very agressive towards the stallion, however, when she has been agressive she has been kicking out and urine has been flying out of her behind as she is making a quick dash from the fence and kicking out like a maniac. I thought maybe she was scared since the vet incident so decided to twitch her to see if she would settle and show to the stallion, she still would not show to the stallion, however, she stood with her behind to him and let him sniff her. I turned her around with the twitch so he could sniff and touch her face and she went balistic again and tried to bite and kick him.

To me she definately does not seem to be properly in season, however, the urine freeing flowing from her swinging backside makes me wonder if she is? However, I would think after 26 days since last cover she would definately be at a standing heat stage?

What are your thoughts on this, I really need this mare in foal as she is a beautiful mare but the fact we cannot get her scanned is a real problem trying to detect whether she is in foal.

Also, at what stage of the pregnancy do you think a bloodtest will show up a pregnancy, I have heard it will not pick up until after 45 days? Is this correct?

Your advice is so needed and appreciated!
 

Cindy
Nursing Foal
Username: Vanity

Post Number: 18
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is there some way to tranq/twitch her and scan her? I don't know if you can tranq them or whether it is recommended when in foal but that is about the quickest way to find out.
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 382
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melody,
Some mare will do a form of "submissive urinating". Jos can go over this in more detail (and accuracy).
Doesn't sound like she is receptive to your stallion and is warding off his advances.
I don't have any information regarding the bloodtest. I am able to have frequent ultrasounds...so don't have to mess with that much.
 

Melody
Neonate
Username: Warner

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare has gone ballistic twice now in the crush and she has been mildly sedated but not twitched.

My vet said it is not good to heavily sedate them just in case they are in early stages of being in foal.

The last two heats she has stood so well for the stallion and shown all normal signs of being in season and not all submissive, but since the major incident of the last episode in the crush she has been acting very weird to the stallion.

I had wondered whether she is now scared of a horse coming to her back end because of her assocation with the vet rectally examining her.

It is driving me crazy, none of my vets seem to be able to give me the advice I need.
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 383
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 11:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melody,

My bet is that she is in foal.
If this is such a huge change in behavior when she was relatively easy to breed.....I'd honor her behavior as a big sign that she is rejecting the stallion for a reason.
Personally, I wouldn't attempt to breed her w/out a vet exam. At 30 days (I believe), a vet should be able to palpate her and determine if she is in foal.
 

Melody
Neonate
Username: Warner

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 11:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HI Heather,

I hope you are right, as this breeding season has been a tough one and my best mare I cannot get in foal so I bought this new mare as she is the exact same breeding to replace a 16 year old mare I could not get in foal so I am hoping so.

We have tried to Palpate her twice now and she trampled our property manager and broke the Vet's hand so I don't like the chances of doing this again she may kill someone and herself.

I just wish I knew whether she was or she wasn't in foal so I could move on! It is getting to the end of the Breeding Season in Australia so I don't have long left.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1143
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 12:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As noted by Heather, some mares display submissive behaviour in a form similar to estrus display urination.

The mare should have been back in estrus somewhere around 14-16 days after she last displayed estrus, and would have been out of estrus by about 21 days after she last showed estrus. By day 26 the mare would most decidedly be in diestrus, and would not be receptive to the stallion. As the mare is also apparently displaying submissive behaviour, it may be difficult to determine estrous (note "ous" not "us") stage correctly.

Evaluation of pregnancy status by bloodtest can be performed from about day 40-45 onwards through to about day 60 using a blood assay for eCG (aka PMSG). From 100 days onwards an assay for total estrogens (or estrone sulfate) can be performed, and is more reliable than the assay for eCG.
 

Melody
Neonate
Username: Warner

Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 12:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks JO,

My mare's last cover date was 20 December 2006. She seemed to be no longer showing on 22 December 2006.

I teased her starting from 6 January (16 days since last cover) and regularly every second day. 23 Days after the last cover I noticed her going over to the fence where the stallion was an attempting to tease but then trying to kick the stallions head in.

Her behaviour has definately been weird, can you advise if sedating a mare if in foal is dangerous? I really need to find out what the go is as I am running out of time.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1144
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 01:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would not be particularly concerned about tranquilization of a pregnant mare, and would consider the risk of missing a twin pregnancy to be greater than tranquilization that will allow ultrasonography to evaluate the pregnancy status (and twin reduction if necessary).
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 62
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In thoroughbreds actually what you speak of is quite common. It is referred to as a mad piss, excuse my french. I have several mares a year who do this.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1145
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 01:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not restricted to Thoroughbreds - it a general equine trait. :-)
 

destny berwick
Weanling
Username: Destiny_berwick

Post Number: 43
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 05:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi jos i just have a quick question that when reding this i was thinking about, i cant seem to get a CLEAR answear. do mares come out of heat in winter? if so about when do they come out and about when do they come back in. melody said she was breeding her mare in late december so i was just wondering, thanks destiny
 

Melody
Nursing Foal
Username: Warner

Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can someone explain "mad piss"? Is this something that says a mare is definately not in foal?

also, the reason I am breeding in December is I am in Australia and our breeding season is from August-Jan each year.
 

Melody
Nursing Foal
Username: Warner

Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After speaking to another vet this morning he has given me a scenario that she could have cancerous cysts but I am thinking that if that was the case would she have shown in the weird way on every heat period (ie: last two heats) not just the last one?
 

destiny berwick
Weanling
Username: Destiny_berwick

Post Number: 45
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

melody sorry i didnt think you were wroung for breeding in the winter( her in the us) i didnt no you were in austrailia . but i do have the same question for jos stilL DO MARES COME OUT OF SEASON IN THE WINTER IN THE UNITED STATES? thanks destiny
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 384
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 12:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melody,
Without an exam, it is a bit premature to even presume a diagnosis.
The behavior your mare is displaying is not abnormal.
She has been bred, and is now unaccepting of a stallions advances.
Until proven otherwise by exam it is probably wise to consider her in foal.
If she is in foal, and is force bred (via live cover or AI), it could easily result in the loss of a pregnancy....and an entire breeding season.
 

Melody
Nursing Foal
Username: Warner

Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 12:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Heather,

Yes I am thinking and considering she may be in foal and also talking to my vets to see if they will give scanning her another go.

Everyone is worried for their safety as when she was scanned she trampled someone and put them in hospital, split her back leg open and broke the Vet's hand so you can imagine everyone is a little worried about hers and the people involved safety. She was mildly sedated as the vets have been telling me you should not heavily sedate a mare in foal but considering what Jo said I don't believe them.

I wish to god it was that easy as getting a scan but I just don't want to put everyone through it.

I am thinking she is in foal from the signs but the fact she has had some winking and urinating I was just a little concerned it was abnormal but it appears not after discussions.

I know there is no other options than a scan to detect either cysts or pregnancy so I am in diastraights as to what to do.
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 385
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 02:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melody,
Have the vet out.
Sedate the smack out of her.
Put a few bales of hay behind her, and get a proper ultrsound :-).
She will be ok and everyone will be safe. Have a few extra people around to help out.

My mare was sedated numerous times for continued care of a leg injury while in foal. There is a large selection of drugs out there that don't pose a threat and can be used safely.

Otherwise, find out when the blood tests can be done and go that way. Just means you'll have to wait a bit longer to get your answer.

:-) let us know how it goes
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1147
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 08:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DO MARES COME OUT OF SEASON IN THE WINTER IN THE UNITED STATES?

Destiny - I have now answered your question in two other places on this bulletin board where you have asked it... here and here. Please can you make sure to check your other posts before asking the same questions repeatedly - it uses up space on the bulletin board and the energy of those replying! :-)



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