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AI'ing mare, does this sound right?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Methods » AI'ing mare, does this sound right? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Robin Culbertson
Weanling
Username: Murrini

Post Number: 29
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 06:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have had my mare at the vet since last Monday (so this is day 10) She was found to have a streptococcal uterine infection so they lavaged her for 4 days and were expecting to breed her last saturday. The ultrasound that I was there for showed the follicles at approx 17 and 20 mm's, that was last Monday. They had given her a shot to short cycle her as she is silent (no particular place in her cycle as I have been reading the shot should be given), so figured that was about when it would bring her into heat. I don't know exactly which drug they used in the shot. They ordered the semen which arrived on saturday and even though she hadn't ovulated they gave her one dose, then said the other was bad (<10%motility) Which was ok because she was slow to develop a follicle so they needed to order more anyhow. The 2nd shipment arrived yeserday, I got a call saying she is at 40mm, she still hasn't ovulated, but they gave her a dose and would check her last night. I just called and the tech didn't know anything except the vet was going to ultrasound her again, so I'm assuming she didn't ovulate.

So, based on the scattered measurments, were they jumping the gun ordering the first shipment or is my mare really just that "slow" to develop a follicle as they have said and it's my problem because I have a wierd mare, or are they giving me the run-around?

We are kinda back woods here, and they are really the only vets around so I can't get a second opinion from anyone here locally. I am already having to cancel the breeding of my second mare due to the cost that has become involved in this one.
 

Jennifer D
Weanling
Username: Jennifer

Post Number: 23
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robin,

Welcome to my world! I have a mare that held at a 40mm follicle for 3 days and we had to ship (and collect which means $) three times. All of her previous cycles had us shipping on a 30 and we inseminated and she ovulated on time. Good news is we have 17mm conceptus on day 18 post ovulation. Hope its still there on Monday. I am 6 thousand in breeding fees from the vet work between her not taking last year and from this year, so yes, it gets expensive!

It sounds like they are doing things correctly for you though. Did they Lavage or infuse her with antibiotic known to kill the strep infection? I always thought you wanted to infuse them with antibiotics instead of lavage.

(Message edited by jennifer on July 28, 2006)
 

Megan Diehl
Weanling
Username: Megan

Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am new to this breeding thing and we have two mares that are being AI bred. What are all these "measurements" you are talking about? our vet hasn't said anything about that. We also have a weird mare that has been at the clinic since tuesday. She seems to ovulate as soon as we give her the shot and then we miss it. We thought it would be easy, being as it is their first breeding ever. And talk about cost. I am just glad we didn't breed to the high buck stallion we had orginally thought about.
 

Torsten Tiemann
Neonate
Username: Qhbreeder

Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 03:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robin;
Did they flush that mare through a closed cervix??? as you say she was not in heat!

There must have been a cl with the 17`s and 20`s
so they could use Pgf 2@ to shortcycle otherwise no sence in trying to shorcycle!Cl must be at least 5 days old. BETTER 7-8 Days i found out to use PGF.
Ultra Sound on day 3 post pgf ,if nothing, on day 5 post pgf, basically wait for a 35mm Follicel ,
give shot of Hcg or deslorelin on 35mm Follicel the same day and order semen same day (35mm day).
Next day Semen arrives ,inseminate ,(Follicel is still there in 80-90%of mares if not it wouldnt have been without hcg or des either ).
Day after insemination Follicel is gone in 80 to 90% of mares .Thats how we do it - and basically thats how all the Equine breeding Facillitys do it
meaning this is no secret!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One insemination does it in 80-90 % of mares that reach a35mm Foll.
But as i said this is no whizard whizdom this is what every body knows(Repro pros)

Maybe something went different with your mare!

Cheers T.Tiemann Equine Breeding Facillity
 

Robin Culbertson
Weanling
Username: Murrini

Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, $1300 later, here's the story so far...

They did infuse her, not lavage her. The first was with DMSO before the culture grew out because the sample came out dirty and she had edema in her uterus so they started treating it that day, the rest was with penicillian (she had streptococcus in her uterus). This was 5 days after the shot which was I believe Luctlyase(sp?) which the vet should bring her into heat as long as she had been out of heat for 5 days. Aparently the cervix was open enough, but she didn't ovulate untill 11 days later (after the infusion, 16 days after the shot). The vet said she is particularly resistant to the hormones because they also gave her Deslorelin which also didn't work. She didn't ovulate until 5 days after it. She finally ovulated Thursday nite but I'm going to be shocked if she takes as the second shipment of semen was no better than the first, and on the second dose of semen there was <1% motility. I'm not sure if I should raise a fuss with the stallion owner, he is making me pay for the second shipment which I understand because the timing was bad, but to have 2 poor quality shipments?? In the contract it states each dose should have approx 800 million sperm with no less than 500 million motile on proper thawing. They sent no instructions the first time, I'm not sure about the second time, but it states in the contract later that the protocol furnished with the semen should be strictly followed. He is a Friesian which I am now being told is just the way they are, but in the letter he sent me it said he tested good and strong for shipping. This is his first year shipping semen.

I'm so frusterated, this is my first experience with AI and it has gone horribly. Thanks everyone for your help!
 

Jennifer D
Weanling
Username: Jennifer

Post Number: 26
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robin,

I truly feel for you. Is this the stallions first year shipping or the owner and collector? Possibly they aren't preping it correctly.
 

Robin Culbertson
Weanling
Username: Murrini

Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 06:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, this is the stallions first year shipping, I'm not sure about the breeder. I thought he was having his vet do the collecting/ shipping, but now I'm not sure.
 

Torsten Tiemann
Neonate
Username: Qhbreeder

Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 02:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Robin,
If your mare is resistant to Hcg and deslorelin(Hard to believe for me!)if given on 35`s , boy its time to quit,if money is a subject.
Imagine ,
You have a mare with open enough cervix to easily enter it 11Days bef. ov.. She has a strepto uterus inf..She is res. to Hcg AND DES.!?!?!
This alone kills her for a frozen semen mare !!!!!
IF MONEY IS A SUBJECT!!!!!!!!!!
Imagine the USounds neccessary per heat to follow her up to ovulation!!!!! POOR MARE!!
AND NOW COMES THE TOPPER! You are dealing with Friesian fozen semen !! It already often is not good enough to COOL so dont talk about FREEZING!!
Suggestion : Quit right now and save another 1.500-
 

Robin Culbertson
Weanling
Username: Murrini

Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's part of the concern in the contract, the semen is only cooled, not Frozen. I'm finding out them stating about thawing it seems to be an error. Is there any error my vet could have made with cooled semen to cause such a poor motility, or is it more likely the stallion is shipping bad?
 

Torsten Tiemann
Neonate
Username: Qhbreeder

Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 02:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cooled Semen is NEVER thawed!!! its shipped in syringes or bags in Equitainers and pulled up in a syringe to be injected as cool as it is (without warming it up)into the mare!!!Its not cooler than about 5°Celsius!!
FROZEN Semen has to be thawed.You have to follow a strict Protocol by the stud semen processing Breeding facillity, to thaw it .
Basically nothing to be done wrong if Straws hit the Water Fast enough , long enough and warm enough!! See no big deal here either!
So find out if it is cooled or frozen !Its abig difference in handling and costs
Friesians are well known for their POOR semen quality
 

Robin Culbertson
Weanling
Username: Murrini

Post Number: 36
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 02:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was definatly cooled. I'm wondering if the guy altered a frozen contract for use in cooled...

I'm now finding out about Friesians reputations. I now need to find out if I have recourse to get a refund as he stated a specific motility, about 800 million being shipped with 500 million being motile upon proper thawing, in the contract that is not being met. Which is apparently an error since you are saying it dosn't need to be thawed. But since he stated a specific amount does that entitle me to pursue a refund since that obviously isn't being met at 10% motility upon recipt of the semen?
 

Torsten Tiemann
Neonate
Username: Qhbreeder

Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 03:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If your vet states that all the shipments where significantly under 500mill mot. you should be able to get a refund .But you have a frozen semen Contract - no one knows what he guaranties in his cooled contracts??
 

Robin Culbertson
Weanling
Username: Murrini

Post Number: 38
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 03:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is his cooled contract, it is titled "Cooled Semen Contract and Invoice" and only refers to cooled semen within it, but refers to thawing. I now think he altered it from a frozen semen contract by changing the title and instances of "frozen" to "cooled" but didn't change the dosing information and left incorrect information for use as a cooled semen contract. Can I still hold him to the contract for those numbers if he did in fact incorrectly alter a frozen semen contract?
 

Torsten Tiemann
Nursing Foal
Username: Qhbreeder

Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 04:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes, his problem - his contract.
 

destny berwick
Nursing Foal
Username: Destiny_berwick

Post Number: 17
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 06:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what do u prefer fresh sperm or coled thanx



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