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Phantom training not going well

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Methods » Phantom training not going well « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Lisa Laplace
Neonate
Username: Rafterl2

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2011
Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 11:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have aquired an older APHA stallion that has sucessfully live covered many mares. We used urine cubes and mare to train him to the dummy. He has had 5 collections after teasing him with a mare and then letting him mount the phantom. He readily mounts the dummy. The problem is that he loses his erection as soon as he mounts or he mounts before he's ready. He is a bit sore in his hock so we will administered some bute tomorrow. He mounts a jump mare for AI collection with no problem. Help.....we dont want to use a mare. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3203
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is difficult to attempt to pinpoint a specific problem from a distance via the Internet, as there are many potential areas that could be negatively affecting the result.

The first point that is important to consider is that it is perfectly normal for stallions to mount a mare of a breeding mount without an erection (or lose an erection upon mounting). In the wild they do this to make sure that the mare is serious about being bred before the drop the delicate equipment into the direct line of fire! Domestically, many people "make the stallion wait until he's ready" - which is contrary to nature, and has actually been shown to result in a longer period of time for collection than if he is allowed to mount without an erection. So my first suggestion would be to let him mount the breeding mount whenever he is ready.

Soreness issues can certainly negatively impact collection. While he may collect on the mare with no trouble, you have to bear in mind that there is not as much stimulation associated with getting on the breeding mount, so the excitement factor may not overrule the pain issue. Use of an NSAID prior to collection is probably a sensible move.

Reasons for failure to collect can be broken down into three categories:
  • Physical;
  • Psychological;
  • Environmental.
Physical is pretty self-explanatory - pain is one issue for example. Psychological aspects will include inappropriate handling and punishment; deviating too far from natural practices; using a tease mare that has hurt him in the past; not using a tease mare when one is needed; etc. Environmental factors can include an AV that is too cold (the interior temperature should be between 45 and 54° C - note interior temperature, not water temperature - with it usually tending towards the hotter end being better with poor collecting stallions); a breeding mount that is unstable or unsuitable (many people have the breeding mount too low which can put undue strain on the stallion's back - think of the height of mare he would be breeding, and use that as a guide); too many distractions around the breeding area; etc.

I have just touched on the tip of the iceberg of collection issues and as I say, without seeing the whole picture, it is really impossible to gain a reasonable impression of where the problem[s] might be, but perhaps the above has helped a little.
 

Lisa Laplace
Neonate
Username: Rafterl2

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2011
Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos,
I think we are on the right track with him. I think we just need to get the combo right. Our Av temp is right in that temp range. Yes, he does get distracted some and needs a mare to tease. Our breeding mount is a comercial and we are going to make it more stable. It is at the height of a normal mare, though. Thanks for you input!!
 

emma west
Neonate
Username: Nogsthenog

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2011
Posted on Monday, April 25, 2011 - 05:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you keep the mare moving near the dummy? Initially we had to have the mare close and keep her moving to retain our boys attention.
 

Chris
Yearling
Username: Galaxy

Post Number: 81
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 03:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of my stallions will mount the phantom without dropping at all, on his second mount (at times) he can be half erect at which time I introduce his penis to the AV and the response is immediate,,,full erection, vigourous thrusting and job done.
 

Chris
Yearling
Username: Galaxy

Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 04:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another stallion that comes here needs a mare in the yard in front of the phantom. We allow nose-to-nose contact which excites him enough to get the job done,in the evnt that he "goes off the boil" so to speak then I will get someone to back the mare up to the teasing fence so he can sniff her perineum then he delivers immediately.
Persevere & you will get there:-)



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