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Oral or Injectable Progesterone

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Methods » Oral or Injectable Progesterone « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Barbara Lewis
Weanling
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 40
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 11:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A client mare arrived here today to be bred, hopefully this coming weekend. My intention was to put her on Regumate 3-4 days after ovulation.

As the owner didn't want to put up with daily dosing, he prefers to use the injectable every two weeks, and suggested progestrone not be started until her "second" pregnancy check.

My question is, if I start her on the oral Regumate (daily) here as planned (3 1/2 days), keep her here until she is 60 days in foal, then send her home, is there any reason they can't then start her on the injections when she gets home?

BTW, which do you prefer and why?

Jos, I know you will ask, so here is why she's going on it in the first place. Last year, she checked in foal. When spring came, she was empty. This is being done as insurance.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2562
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

  1. If a definitive need for progestin supplementation has not been identified, it is unlikely to be required. "Random" use (for unidentified reasons, including "insurance") does carry some risk in some cases that could result in lowered pregnancy rates (see "the article");
  2. The greatest risk period for pregnancy loss is the early embryonic period - up to about 15 days post-ovulation - which means that waiting until even the first pregnancy check has allowed the mare to go through that greater risk period (and therefore if she is pregnant at that point is in fact unlikely to need progestin supplementation);
  3. There is no reason why progestin supplementation could not be carried out in the manner you indicate (Regumate at 3½ days on then change to injectable);
  4. We don't use progestins for insurance - in fact, we don't even have a bottle of Regumate on the place! :-)
  5. In the rare cases where progestin supplementation is indicated (cervical damage; indication of impending EED at preg, check etc.) we use the injectable 12-day biorelease altrenogest from BET Pharmacy
 

Barbara Lewis
Weanling
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 44
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you. I didn't realize that using Regumate without cause would do any harm... just to the pocketbook. I will speak to the owners about this, in fact, I had already decided that doing a progesterone assay before starting her might be the best idea. If I remember right, she was cleaned up before bringing her here, so infection probably was the reason she had slipped her 09 foal. She had a foal in 08.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2566
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Be aware that - as pointed out in the linked article - a single progesterone assay is inadequate to obtain an accurate indication of endogenous progesterone levels in the mare. At a minimum, at least one test each day for three days should be performed.

The risks associated with unnecessary progestin supplementation revolve primarily around mares that have a smoldering uterine infection (which progestin supplementation can cause to "bloom"); mares that have an inability to absorb uterine fluid, and that have fluid present (progestins will suppress the absorption ability further); and risk to the human administering it. There is also a demonstrated risk of masculinization of filly foals external genitalia (increased clitoris size), but really that is somewhat academic, as there does not appear to be a reduction in fertility linked to it in the foal.
 

Barbara Lewis
Weanling
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 47
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 05:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't suppose this test is something we could do on the farm is it? It would be next to impossible to get the vet here three days in a row.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2567
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 07:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The "Target Progesterone Assay" is available from both Exodus Breeders Supply and Equitainer. This is a semi-quantitative "stall-side" assay kit that if you can draw blood is easy to do at home.
 

Barbara Lewis
Weanling
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 48
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 01:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fantastic! This, as well as a cytology kit, should be a great addition to my little breeding lab.
 

Barbara Lewis
Weanling
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 49
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 02:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, can you translate this into layman terms? It's the Cytology report of the mare mentioned in this thread. We are in a debate as to whether or not to give progesterone. She slipped her foal that was due to be born this year and has a clean culture. I don't have the information regarding uterine tone, etc. This reference to inflammation concerns me... I'm about to breed her live cover (today) and am concerned as we want to do everything possible to have a successful pregnancy for this mare.

SOURCE: Uterine cytology.

DESCRIPTION:

The sample is highly cellular and contains individualized and

clus1 ered cells that are often degenerate. Intact cells have rounded

to ovoid nuclei with coarsely condensed chromatin and a small to moderate amount of basophaic cytop~m. The degenerate cells appear to have indistinct vacuoles within their cytoplasm. The background contains abundant nuclear material.

MICROSCOPIC FINDINGS: NUMEROUS DEGENERATE CEllS, WITH A FEW CYTOLOGICALLY UNREMARKABLE EPITHElIAL CELtS.

COMMENTS:

low numbers of intact epithelial cells ~ppear cytologically unremarkable. There are numerous ruptured cells, therefore the possibility that there is inflammation is:still present.

Additionally, some of the cells appear ~ have vacuoles that were indistinct which could indicate either a ;dysplastic change in other epithelial cells or possibly the presence of macro phages. Resampling, or biopsy with histopathology, and possibly culture with sensitivity

are recommended to further evaluate the uterus.

Reaspiration of the site may be submitted for a reduced fee. Please request test code 5257
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2572
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 10:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I already did - 5 days ago.

Also, please note that the OP posted under the topic "Cytology results" - which is suitable, rather than "Oral or Injectable Progesterone" (here) which is not. I'm kind and respond, but be warned that some of the other moderators just delete inappropriate content under a heading...!
 

Barbara Lewis
Weanling
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 50
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry. I wasn't aware of the other thread. I've just kept this one up and refreshed it, rather than going through the menu.

I put it here as it related to the mare in question including some other history about her. I'll go have a look.

Your patience and willingness to always share your knowledge is something I never take for granted, and appreciate more than you can possibly know. Thank you!



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