MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
SITE MAP OF EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
CONTACT US

horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
Go to the articles page
 
Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
 
Topics Page Topics Page Register for a new account Register Edit Profile Profile Log Out Log Out Help/Instructions Help    
New Posts New Posts Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Posting is restricted to registered board members only to prevent spamming of the board. We regret the necessity of this action, but hope you will appreciate the importance of the integrity of the board. Registration is free and information provided during the process will not be submitted to third parties.

AV question

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Methods » AV question « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Sideshot Ranch
Neonate
Username: Sideshotranch

Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 10:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last year our we collected our stud of the side of mares and live covered both. We used an 18" AV. This year we decided to strictly use the phantom. We sent him to be trained to the phantom, which went really well, but it was discovered that he prefers a 22" AV. So we have been using a 22" AV this year and collection has gone well - we have 3 mares in foal so far. He does not have much volume though, and I am wondering if the AV might be too tight? When I check it after filling it, it seems tight at the end, but that is how he seems to like it. Also, could the fact that the gel filter is not necessarily "open" enough and letting the semen filter through properly. Once we collect him, I immediatly take the gel filter out so the sperm won't be exposed to it too long - should I wait a little longer? Last year he produced more volume (around 40-50mL), but this year sometimes all we get is 10 mL. I know the concentration is all that really matters (I don't have a sperm counter), but just looking through the microscope, it seems to be very concentrated. We are just about to start having to breed around 3 mares a collection, and a little more volume would be nice. So could the AV tightness be an issue, the gel filter needing to be more open, need to wait longer before removing the gel filter? I know the temperature sometimes can mean more to the stud than the pressure, but I have not changed the pressure because it has worked so far, but if anyone knows from experience that an AV that is too tight restricts him in any way, I will try a little less pressure. I just don't want to "fix" something that is not necessarily broken - I would just like some more volume. Oh, and we are collecting no more than every other day, sometimes longer time periods when there are no mares to be bred and we are feeding him the supplement Magnitude. Thanks!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2375
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 01:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can't determine concentration by looking at it under the microscope unless you're using a hemacytometer or other counting device.

Think about it and you will understand the simplicity of this. If you take two drops of semen from the same sample, but when you drop it on the microscope slide one of the samples is twice as deep as the other (and remember, we're dealing in microns of depth here, not even millimetres), then that sample will look twice as concentrated as the other, even though they are both exactly the same.

Volume doesn't mean anything by itself, and nor for that matter does concentration. It's only when it's multiplied with the concentration to give you total sperm numbers that it has a meaning.

Bottom line? You need to start counting the sperm to get the concentration.

Having said that, one possible explanation for the reduced volume is that the less teasing that goes on, the less secondary sex gland secretion - and that secretion is (in part) seminal plasma, which increases volume. Hence, if he is not being teased as much (maybe only mentally, not necessarily physically) because he is getting the job done faster, then you may be getting less in the way of seminal plasma.

As far as reduction in exposure to gel fraction - keep doing what you're doing. Gel fraction is likely to be toxic to the sperm, so the faster you get it out of there, the better. If you are getting a clog at the gel filter however, with sperm-rich portion getting displaced by the gel (and therefore not making it through the filter to the bottle) then obviously that could reduce both volume and sperm number. We like to use the "Playtex" baby bottle as our collection bottle, as it has a wide mouth and is less likely to clog, and additionally as it has no bottom (you use a disposable bottle liner!) it doesn't air-lock as a closed bottom bottle can. We use the wide mouth filter from Exodus Breeder Supply - item 170, as it fits the Playtex bottle, and also doesn't clog like some other filters do (but still filters well!).
 

Sideshot Ranch
Neonate
Username: Sideshotranch

Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, ok, so I see what you are saying about the concentration. But still my main concern is the volume. At the beginning of the season (when he was still at the other facility being trained to mount the phantom) - he was giving 60-70 mL per collection, so I know he should be producing more.

We collected him again today, we teased him with two mares, one was hot in heat. He got all excited as usual. So, we took him out of his pen and led him over to the phantom, and when he was ready, we let him mount. But again, we only got 10 mL of semen. I took the gel filter out quickly and there was really nothing in there. So I am assuming it is a comfort issue...maybe the AV is too tight and binding him? There is definitely a good amount of sperm in the ejaculate, but I am thinking he is giving us an incomplete collection because something is off. Could it be just because he is not excited enough? What is your experience with this? Have you ever had it happen?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2376
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tell me how many sperm you are getting in the ejaculate, and if those numbers are dropping, and I can answer your question.

As you don't know how many sperm there were or are, you don't know if you have a problem.

I have a stallion that produces an ejaculate of 10-ml volume, with a concentration of 600 million sperm per ml, so total sperm in the ejaculate is 6 billion.

I also have a stallion that produces an ejaculate with 60-ml volume, and a concentration of 80 million per ml, so total sperm in the ejaculate 4.8 billion.

Which would you prefer? 6 billion perm or 4.8 billion?

Seems like a no-brainer to me! :-)

You need to determine your stallion's sperm concentration and therefore total sperm number in the ejaculate. Nothing else matters until you do.
 

Sideshot Ranch
Nursing Foal
Username: Sideshotranch

Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 02:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, I am getting the ejaculate tested soon (probably tomorrow), and I will let you know. I definitely have no problem with him producing less if the concentration is good, it just seemed odd that the volume went down so much in one season. I just don't want the AV to be too tight or something simple and cause him to be giving us incomplete collections. I also wondered if it could get trapped up in the AV? I sure don't want him to get discouraged from mounting the dummy. But he seems to be finishing the job, he is completely relaxed when he is done and stays up there for a while before he gets down. I will get the numbers and get back with you.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2379
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unless the incompletion is very incomplete (how many sperm? :-)), an incomplete ejaculate is not really a major issue as the perm are ejaculated in the first three or so ejaculatory spurts. It's the seminal plasma that is ejaculated in the tail fraction of the ejaculate, and that is what increases the volume, but is not essential for pregnancy establishment (in fact, can be detrimental in some situations).
 

Barbara Lewis
Weanling
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 31
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a new hemacytometer that has never been out of the package. I bought a counter, so would be interested in selling this if you are interested. If so, you may email me at bsl@barakafarm.com. Did you sell your 18" AV? The rubber in mine is sticking together, and I may need to buy a new one.
 

Sideshot Ranch
Nursing Foal
Username: Sideshotranch

Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So we got his semen checked yesterday and wouldn't you know he produced 3 times the volume he normally does! We had to collect him 5 days in a row, Thursday through this Monday (which I know is a lot for a 4-year-old stallion, but we had to). Anyway, he gave us 25 mL the first 4 times, then 10 mL the last collection on Monday. So we collected him yesterday and got around 75 mL and the concentration was 100 million/mL. I am not sure what caused the increase in volume this time? So weird...



Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
IMV Technologies - makers of Equine AI Equipment
Equine A.I. Equipment Supplies
Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your Veterinary Ultrasounding Needs
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Exodus Breeders Supply - Your one-stop shop for all your reproductive needs!
Exodus Breeders Supply
Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products!
Reproduction Resources: Specializing in Artificial Breeding and Embryo Transfer Supplies
Specializing in Artificial Breeding and ET Supplies
BET Pharm: Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
  International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary Information Service
 

MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | SERVICES
FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS | LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD
SITEMAP | CONTACT US