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Breeding Soundnes Exam/Certificate Bulletin Board » Breeding Methods » Breeding Soundnes Exam/Certificate « Previous Next »

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Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 333
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 06:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good morning all! Well, I've decided on a stallion to breed Sweetie to this year....I was going to do a small welsh and get a sport pony, but I came across a beautiful Belgium Warmblood Stallion on an auction site, bid and won the I am breeding to Coronado WW...a very nice super jumper stallion. I have a question though, I turned in the breeding contract, etc. and had the vet out yesterday, as Sweetie is just starting her cycle. The breeder wants a breeding soundness cert. along with a culture...well that will take 48 hours for result...the vet and I just don't understand...what if she is ready to breed before culture is back? The vet said, Kim, if I breed a dirty mare, I've wasted your money and mine...what does the stallion owner care? They are not live covering and you'll just have to pay for another collection....anyone with any thoughts...I certainly don't want to miss her ovulation because we are waiting for results...I've emailed the stallion owner and hope that I won't have a problem because I won the auction and I'm not considered one of the higher paying clients....just getting a bit concerned...I really like things to run smoothly....Thanks, Kim

Barbara Lewis
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 29
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim, as a mare owner, the thing that would concern me is if your mare happens to be dirty and you breed her, you might not know it until she aborts 7 months down the road.

The catch here is that the results may come back in time, but ordering and receiving takes another 24-48 hours. I understand that, but as it is early in the season, you will be better off to know for sure before the breeding takes place. Take Jos's advice and have a cytology done at the same time.

As a stallion owner, personally I am as disappointed as the mare owner when things don't go right. I've let some mares "slide" who did turn out to be infected. All that work was for nothing. It's extremely disappointing, a great waste of my time, and the mare owners money. I regretted not being more strict about the report, for the sake of everyone concerned.

Yes, I collected the collection fee, but at the end of the day, that money is well earned. Quite honestly, I would rather know that my efforts were successful than to do all that work in vain. Also, in years when the stallion is heavily booked, we want to be sure that we are giving that spot in his book to a mare who is going to produce.

It has been my experience that a lot of people (speaking generally, not about you personally) I have found so many people who will spend all that money and effort, but not want to go to the expense of making sure the mare is clean. It is hard to understand. I have gotten enough of those to be more demanding. Breeding is expensive. I feel one must do it right, or not at all. Without that report first, you are jeprodizing the mare, the foal, and yes, affecting the stallions record, as well.

People always want to blame the stallion for every failure on his record. How often have you heard, "Well, so and so bred to him and her mare didn't get in foal." Mare owners ask for details about his successes, and we want to give the best reports possible.

From a foal crop, you are going to lose at least 1/3 or more of the foals anyway. Mare deaths, abortions, foals that are born dead or die right after birth, etc. all affect the final statistic. Breed organizations give recognition to stallions who have produced certain numbers of registered foals. Some stallion owners really work to achieve that recognition - thus donate breedings to build numbers. For them, there is no advantage to giving away thousands of dollars in stud fees, without assuring that the breeding will be successful.

Hopefully I have given you some insight as to why it is in your own interest, as well as that of the stallion, to get that report before the semen goes in. Speak to your veterinarian about methods to delay ovulation until the report arrives.

If your mare came into heat on Friday, she will very likely be ready to breed next Wednesday. That's plenty of time anyway, so I wouldn't worry. If the sample culture was started on Friday, you should have the results by Monday. Faxing or emailing the results to the stallion owner the minute they are received might do the trick! Otherwise, you will have another chance very soon.

Good Luck!

(Message edited by Baraka on March 28, 2009)

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 334
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Barbara for clearing up some of those things. You are was just a question my repro vet had.....I guess she figures she would not breed a dirty mare. I had full intentions of doing the culture, etc...I was just worried about the timing...the vet was not worried, she was not able to do a culture Friday though, she is barely in heat...we are checking her again Friday...this is only my 2nd AI breeding, so I am new and the previous AI stallion owner did not require I'm learning too...thanks, Kim

Kim Peavy
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 335
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ooops, meant to say we are checking her again Sunday....:-)

Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2332
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are waiting for culture results, but did your vet perform a cytology smear as well? It was probably a waste of time and money doing one without the other - follow that link for more details.

In addition to what Barbara has said above in response to your question, from a mare owner's perspective, when breeding to a stallion, one of the questions I will ask is "what is the first-cycle conception rate for this stallion" - in other words, what percentage of mares get pregnant on the first breeding cycle. It may be that the stallion has a 90% seasonal pregnancy rate, but if it took 3 cycles to get all those mares pregnant, that's no consolation to you, the mare owner, that's paying for the vet to breed the mare on those three cycles. From the stallion owner's perspective, when asked that question, they want to be able to say "he has a X% first-cycle rate" - obviously being able to put a good number in there. If he's dealing with mare owners that don't bother to get a BSE done prior to breeding, that % is going to take a hit... So there's another reason why the conscientious stallion owner wants to see a clear BSE prior to shipping semen.

Finally, there are a lot of people out there - both breeders and veterinarians - who are not experienced in reproduction, and don't understand the importance of a BSE (or a cytology smear for that matter). Most vets do not do a rotation on equine reproduction when going through vet school, so their education on the subject is limited. This conscientious stallion owner, and others like them, are therefore helping the mare owner by steering them in the right direction, and assisting them (albeit in some cases unwillingly) in getting that mare pregnant with a minimum of cost, time and effort, and as the saying goes "the foal is the goal"... :-)

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