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Is she or isn't she

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Methods » Is she or isn't she « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Jane Whritenour
Neonate
Username: Quarterhorsetimestwo

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's my story, PLEASE give your thoughts

Bred our mare on June 7th & 9th. was out of heat on the 10th. 3-4 days later she had some vaginal discharge. So being this was the first time we have bred I was concerned, I called the vet. here response was "Oh, thats not good, But I'll come out on 7/7 to palpate her to see if shes in foal. Well, I persisted she come out to look. She did said it looked like an infection do a culture & well see, in the mean time she washed her out with saline & gentamicn(sp). No discharge after a day. 12 days later the culture says she had strep- zoo. Vet advises that when she goes into heat - well treat her. OK- except
now it was July 7th and still no heat cycle.

So I call a different vet that has US capability.
I go over everything with them. Theyb come out a week later They do a US - say cant see any baby
they also say her cervix is tight they do a culture also - sent it out. This vet stated she should go into heat soon as her follicle is about 20 mm. OK. I received a call 2 days ago with her culture results. Vet says nothing worth treating. may have grown contanimates. (?) Still no heat cycle either

So do you think she is or do I just wait- any one got a thought?

Jane
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1094
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think your just going to have to wait unfortunately a mars heat cycle isnt set in stone so she may still come in.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2120
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What did the cytology on the first swab show? Was there even one done? Was the mare ever ultrasounded to check for pregnancy on the first go-round?

If the answer to all of the above is "no", then it is possible that there was a pregnancy that was missed, and the mare (by 30 days) was already developing endometrial cups, which secrete eCG and will keep the mare out of estrus ("heat") until about 90-120 days after the breeding (or so). That there was a culture swab passed through the cervix (for the first culture) would be likely to cause pregnancy loss.

If on the other hand, the answers were "yes", then although the former scenario could still exist, it is less likely, and Jenni's suggestion of patience may be applicable.
 

Jane Whritenour
Neonate
Username: Quarterhorsetimestwo

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 04:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, the first swab showed Strep -zoo . Sensitivity was to a list of antibotics, Gentamicin was resistant. Penicilan was sensitive.
My local vet, (The first one i called) wanted to flush her with Penicilian when she came into heat.

The second vet ( which was the next town over) also did a culture had a hard time getting the swap as cervix was tight. She did an US didn't see anything. But her swab " nothing to be concerned with probably just contaiminants" She was rather puzzled when I told her she had not gone into heat either. She is quite visual with her heat cycles, winking and everything she even backs up to our gelding.

By the way, what is a mars heat cycle?

Could the first lavage have cleared the infection or what ever and the preganancy progressed?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2121
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 09:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please read the article on this site about the importance of performing a cytology and not just a culture (follow that link). There is also an article in the articles section that discusses the mare's cycle. There are probably some other articles there that might help you if you were to review them as well.

The first lavage could have cleared an infection if there was one, but will also have cleared any pregnancy.
 

Jane Whritenour
Neonate
Username: Quarterhorsetimestwo

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The second vet did a slide but I do not know the results of that. Some local Old timers or do I call them experts say I should just wait ( thats a long wait) They said there probably wasn't anything to begin with . Has anyone had a gut feeling and everyone else tells you something else?
 

Barbara Lewis
Nursing Foal
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 17
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, unfortunately I have run across some vets who don't want to do a cytology (and won't). What do you think of the cytology kits you use on the farm? I've threatened to get one and do it myself. I'm not sure what type swab to use, however. Would you use the same swab you use for the culture, and could you still send that same swab off for a culture if needed, or do you need to do a new one? I'm a little worried about contaminating the swab if I do it myself. That fear is probably unjustified, as I would be as careful as anyone else.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2139
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 12:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are two schools of thought as to whether to use one or two swabs.

If using one, the argument is that in the event of a positive cytology, the pathogen identified is likely the cause. There is however a risk of false identification if not using sterile microscope slides.

If using two, use the first swab for the culture and the second sample for the cytology. This is to my mind the preferable route.

Doing cytology on-farm is easy, and a useful diagnostic. In fact, a cytology smear is probably more useful than a culture, at least initially, and definitely alone. We in fact teach how to do a cytology at our three-day courses, and everyone that attends goes home with adequate knowledge to perform and read a smear, although of course the ore you do it, the better you get.



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