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Novice breeder here... a little help?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Methods » Novice breeder here... a little help? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Anonymous
 
Posted From: 66.162.235.30
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 05:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm a little frustrated because I'm getting conflicting info from the stallion owner (lots of experience) and the vet (also with lots of experience!) We are doing live cover with my mare and I'm trying to determine the timing. She was in EXTREMELY strong heat June 4th and 5th. Out of heat on the 7th - absolutely no interest. Sadly, we missed her because the stallion owner was out of town with a sick relative.

When should we try again? Stallion owner said the 27th and 28th should be perfect. Is this correct?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10169
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is hard to make an accurate determination without having had the mare ultrasounded to identify when she previously ovulated and again to determine when she next has a breedable follicle. We can however make some assumptions based on "the average mare":
  • Most mares ovulate about 24-48 hours before the end of "standing heat" display;
  • Most mares have an inter-ovulatory period of ~21 days;
  • Most mares will tend to display strongest heat around the time of ovulation.
Based on these average facts, we can extrapolate the following information:
  • As your mare was in strongest heat June 4/5, and had ceased displaying heat by the 7th, we are led to believe that she ovulated ~June 5;
  • As the average interovulatory period is 21 days, if the previous ovulation occurred on June 5, the next will be likely to occur ~June 26;
  • Sperm from a fertile stallion will be viable in the mare for about 48 hours after breeding live cover (in some cases more, but that is a safe average);
  • The oocyte is viable after ovulation, but an increase in early embryonic death rates is seen with breedings that take place >12 hours after ovulation
The optimum date for live cover breeding with a fertile stallion based upon the above figures and extrapolations is therefore June 25th. Breeding on the 27/28th is likely to be after the next ovulation.

But remember - these are based on averages. To determine accurately, use ultrasound!
 

Dorthy Brown (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 136.181.195.17
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok I have a question. We are trying to breed our mare. Had her with the stud(live cover) --was covered May 29th and 30th brought her home still showed mild heat on 31st. Took her to the vet on June 13--he ultrasound said she is not pregnant she had a follicle so he measured it said she should ovulate on sat--that wouldve been June 18th --brought her back to the stud on the 18th --she STILL has not come back into heat. She showed no signs of heat before we brought her back--My question did we miss her heat, or was the vet way off on when she'd ovulate OR is she actually already pregnant and vet missed it on the ultrasound??? How long should we leave her with the stud before we KNOW she will not be coming into heat>??
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10173
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is impossible to accurately predict an impending ovulation based on an examination taking place 5 days before the predicted event. If your vet did indeed indicate a specific pinpointing of the ovulation (i.e. he said "she's going to ovulate Saturday" rather than "she'll probably be ready to be bred on Saturday") then I would encourage you to find another vet and get a second opinion about everything.

As far as your latter group of questions, the answers are all essentially "maybe, yes" :-)

Get the mare evaluated using ultrasound, and possibly by a different vet if the above applies. You'll just drive yourself crazy (and be no further ahead) playing guessing games...!!! :-)
 

Dorthy Brown (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 136.181.195.17
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 12:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah he said to have her bred on saturday and again on Monday--because she should ovulate on Sat.-- and we should be all set--but like I said she has not as of yet come back into heat. I called the office and another vet said that usually they are very close maybe off by a day or two when measuring the follicle--that was Monday. I called again today and am waiting to speak with the vet that we saw when we had the ultrasound to see what he says.
 

LRidgeway
Weanling
Username: Laurie

Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 02:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a question sorta related...

Can trailering or physical/mental stress affect ovulation?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10174
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If your vets have that good accuracy in predicting ovulation, they are to be envied - and will be by most of the theriogenologists and veterinary teaching universities world wide... :-)

Part of the problem is that mares can (and do) develop mid-cycle follicles, which can ovulate or regress, so simply seeing a follicle doesn't mean that it is going to be a breedable follicle, never mind that it will be breedable in a certain number of days.

I think I'd go with another check as described in my previous post if I were you...
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10175
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Physical or mental stress has not been linked to ovulation as far as I am aware, but it has been linked to failure of pregnancy maintenance.
 

Anonymous
 
Posted From: 66.162.235.30
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos!

I'm shipping her over on Friday so hopefully we can cover her the 25, 26, 27 or whatever the mare decides. I'll keep my fingers crossed!
 

Dorthy B (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 136.181.195.17
Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 07:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the advice. My mare is being checked today by the stud owners vet. She has two mares that needed to have an ultrasound to rule out twinning(she already knows there pregnant) so she called to see if she could bring my mare in too. Her vet is an Equine Repro specialist so hopefully we'll know more whats going on after today.
 

Anonymous
 
Posted From: 64.12.116.13
Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

VEt was out again today and still not pregnant. She says she sees not suspects cysts. She is at a loss as to why.
We bred her 2 years ago became pregnant. Lost the baby went through a lot of colic symtoms. Now she won't settle and get pregnant. She is 12. Will stand for the stud like a dream. But nothing.
She has a companion that the 2 get quite upset being without. Could this be a form of stress that is maybe creating problems with her. We take her there do what has to be done and bring her home.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10185
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 10:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK... I'm losing track of the "Anonymous" posts... are you all the same "Anonymous"? If so - I thought you were anticipating breeding on the 24th (today), not pregnancy checking?

I would encourage a good breeding soundness and pre-breeding examination by a veterinarian experienced in equine reproduction - preferably a theriogenologist (which is a vet certified in reproduction). There are a wide variety of reasons why a mare may not become pregnant many (if not most) of which are treatable, but they do need evaluation to determine what the problem is.

Stress can be a problem, but I would look at simpler things first. Did she have a culture and cytology performed pre-breeding? You might want to check out some of the other articles in the articles section of this site, as they will probably prove of benefit.
 

Dorthy Brown (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 136.181.195.17
Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 08:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just wanted to update. My mare is pregnant--the stud owners vet says she as of Friday was 28-30 days along so my vet just missed it. Which I know can happen but it would've been nice if he had said when I called him that he possibly missed it --instead he said oh no he didn't miss it she isn't pregnant!! I think I will be using a different vet the rest of the pregnancy!!
 

connie mason
Neonate
Username: Connie

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a three yr old stud that will not breed. He shows no interest. any suggestions.
 

destiny
Neonate
Username: Djb

Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i have a 5 year old mini donkey and its kinda hard to tell when she is in heat so any sugg on how to tell!!??? breeding season coming soon !!!



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