I have been collecting and shipping my 20 y/o stud for several years now, with each year becoming more difficult due to his arthritic hocks. This year is the first year that have have actually not gotten any semen from him, he can't stay on the mount long enough, so I researched the "ground collecting technique" here at this site as well as other places on the internet and tried it. Well, I used both the hand method as well as going back to my AV and he will get almost to ejaculation and quit. I also tried these techniques with a 4 y/O that has never bred a mare or been collected, with the same results. I tried each stallion 3 times with the same results each time. What could I be doing wrong?? This is going to be the only way I get the older stud collected, even bute is not working this year as it has in the past. Thanks
Jos Posted From: 188.8.131.52
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 11:07 am:
3 tries with an untrained stallion is often not enough! Keep trying!
Also - what internal temperature do you have your AV at? Often having it at the warm end of the scale can improve the response, so plan on having the internal temperature close to (but not more than) 54° C (130° F) and see if that helps.
Micki G Posted From: 184.108.40.206
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 01:35 pm:
Thanks, I'm going to try it again today. The way the articles read, it seemed like I should get results pretty quickly and since I didn't, I did not want to continue without more advice. These guys can get kinda frustrated with you and I did not want to make it a bad experience. I usually have my AV temp at 117 to 120F. I'll increase the temp and see if that helps. I have the Colo. model and one thing I noticed that if it tipped down much that the end of the AV was much tighter than at the top, should I maybe switch AV models--not to mention it's quite heavy with the water in it.
Jos Posted From: 220.127.116.11
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 10:03 pm:
You should work with your stallion repeatedly, but stop before he starts to get frustrated. You want to make the whole experience pleasurable for him, and leave him wanting more...
Do not tip the AV too much down towards the gound when the penis is in it! That is uncomfortable for the stallion, and he will quit thrusting and lose his erection! You need the penis/AV to be held up towards his belly - not right hard against it, but up towards it and just slightly lower than parallel to the ground. Take a look at the photos on the completed short courses page of us ground collecting stallions and you will see what I mean.
You can certainly try switching AV's. I'm not a big lover of the Missouri for ground collecting as it does not have a lot of stability - but it is lighter than the Colorado! We prefer the French (INRA) AV - you can see it in the article about AV's on this web site. It's a good lightweight AV, and I would recommend anyone starting out or replacing an AV to invest in one!
I tried the hand collection method today for the first time with my stallion. I only used one sponge at the tip of his penis and had to press pretty firmly and sort of bounce it on the head of his penis (Not let pressure off, but push harder, then back to normal rhythmically) and squeezed firmly with my other hand about 4 or 5 inches from the base of his penis. He would occasionaly stop thrusting and act like he was very confused since he was not mounted on anything, and I would bounce the sponge on the tip again, and wiggle my hand that was squeezing the base. It took us about 4 or 5 minutes with all the confused stopping to stare at me like I was insane, but once he belled up, I used the warm sponge to almost massage the tip and he flagged for me. He is 10 yrs old and has always bred live cover. He has been collected once or twice when he was younger, but off of a jump mare. He took to it right away, and I left him tied by the tease mare to go breed the other mare, and when I came back He was extended again and we collected one more time for practice. This method doesn't tire him out as much, and he recovers alot faster too.
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