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Caslicks

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Methods » Caslicks « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Anonymous
Posted From: 208.6.56.254
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I may have the opportunity to lease a mare for the 2004 season. I was told she would require a caslick but that everything else for her in regards to breeding is good. I understand the purpose of a caslick etc. For those of you that deal with mares regarding the same do you find it a big problem? I am just starting on this breeding issue so would like your opinion.
 

Jos
Posted From: 65.58.152.204
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 06:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A Caslick's procedure is generally placed to correct reproductive issues that are present as a result of poor reproductive conformation. There are therefore several items worthy of your consideration before leasing:
  • What is the endometrial biopsy score of this mare (previous infections may result in a lowered biopsy score and less chance of pregnancy establishment/maintenance);
  • How poor is the mare's external reproductive and how old is she? If she is a younger mare, bear in mind that conformation is - to some extent - a hereditary feature, so you may be reproducing and perpetuating poor conformation (and therefore fertility issues);
  • If the mare is older, she may have a greater problem with delayed uterine clearance, which although easily dealt with does require dealing with!
  • While you have been told that "everything else is... good", it's a long time until next spring and if there is poor conformation, then there is a increased possibility of a uterine infection being established by the time you go to breed.
Having said all of the above, all things are relative! If the reproductive conformation is not seriously wrong, or if she is an older multiparous mare, then the above concerns may be "overkill". OTOH, if she is a 6 year old maiden mare....
 

Anonymous
Posted From: 64.217.50.230
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm glad I not frequent this board too often...is there anything positve said around here?
 

Cathy
Posted From: 67.1.1.177
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 11:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep posting like your current 3 posts and you wont be frequenting this site at all I think.
 

Anonymous
 
Posted From: 211.29.227.9
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,
I was just looking on the net trying to find some info about Caslicks. If you know any specific sites, plz let me know (contact: Kathylawson163@hotmail.com).
I had my mare ("bomb-proof", loving 20yo best mate) go through the op due to her previous owners poor foaling for the sake of horse-racing. She was sucking air, which (i expect) she caught a nasty infection from. Ontop of that, she had (or still has) urine and fecial matter pooling "in there" due to poor postioning. Her bottom area was raw and began blistering, demanding a regular wash, aswell as a good lining of vasoline to help the urine run off and to help stop the burning. After discussion with my vet, we put her on anti-biotics (before and after the op) specific for her illness. To my dissapointment, her condition is much the same as before the op, and am currently treating her with the same anti-biotics (which are anything but cheap, $50 for 5 days (AM/PM) treatment).
I prefer adivce from a vet, but any other suggestions will be taken in good faith as I am in serious wonder whether i should pass her on to the better world, or to keep on battling with this?
Katherine.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10310
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not a vet, but perhaps my comments may still prove of value.

Mares with particularly bad reproductive conformation will generally be made worse urine poolers by putting in a Caslick's procedure. This is because the poor external conformation equates to internal conformation changes as well, with the urethral opening becoming lower (or almost as low as) the lowest external portion of the vagina. With the suturing of the labial lips causing "back pressure" and the effects of gravity, the end result is an increase in urine flowing cranially (headwards) and ending up adjacent to the cervix (pooling). A Caslick's procedure is therefore generally not recommended in mares that are already pooling urine, or those that may become inclined to pool following suturing.

These mares with a likelihood for pooling are better dealt with by use of a urethral extension procedure. This is a surgical procedure that - as it says - extends the urethra. Once this is successfully performed, a Caslick's procedure may also be warranted to prevent aspiration of air.

If it's any consolation, your mares current reproductive conformation is probably not as a result of anything the previous owners did, but an indication of her age and genetic predisposition to this conformational change. If she has had multiple foals, this will generally make such a condition worse.
 

qtrhrsama
Neonate
Username: Qtrhrsama

Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Jos, This is Fred from your Cincinnati class. How can one tell if your mare is a pooler? What signs or items of concern should you look for? thanks Fred
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10314
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Fred:

Typically you're going to discover this when you look through the speculum at the cervix and see the urine in front of the cervix; when you go to inseminate and when you remove your hand from the vagina you bring urine with it (or of course identify the urine as you put your hand in, although as it is body temperature it may not feel different enough from surrounding tissues to identify in that manner); or by ultrasound that shows non-clear fluid in the vagina.

If you have a mare that has significantly poor external reproductive conformation, this is quite likely to be found, so reviewing the external conformation is a good start.

Page 42 in your course notes should help! :-)
 

Anonymous
 
Posted From: 207.63.228.99
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

we have (2) retired thoroughbred fillies. Both are vaginally sutured. Both are coming into estrus. We have observed and are trying to document their behavor etc. We are hoping to keep them cycling well into the winter-(dec) with longer periods of artifical lighting. Dec. is our goal month for breeding. The question is... should we have the vet surgically incise the vulva now or wait until we are ready to breed? thanks in advance
 

Barbara Lewis
Nursing Foal
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 18
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have recently purchased a mare that was suppose to have been sutured after treating a uterine infection. Long story short, upon a veterinarian examination, she shows no signs of a "caslick" which is what I thought they were referring to. They tell me instead of the procedure where the vulva of the mare is fused together (caslicked) that the mare just was stitched closed.

IMO, this sounds like something that could cause problems, rather than prevent them. Am I wrong? Is this a common practice? I've never heard of doing this.
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1244
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara: Wow...that's a new one for me too. I have a mare that sports a caslick for the same reasons as you mention. But a permanent stitch job to close everything off???? Wow, if it is such, I'd be wondering why it is such a drastic measure and perhaps this could pose a definate breeding problem for you down the road. If she is so fraught with this condition that it would cause such a measure, I'm wondering how in the world you would keep her pregnant if a standard caslick is not effective. I'd sure be afraid of pregnating a mare that you had to completely close off. What if she aborts and can't dispel the contents or even worse, how would you know that you weren't trapping in an infection that could kill her (like you so appropriately detected with your question). Whew...thats something for Jos to answer. Perhaps he's so much more familiar with this procedure.
 

Barbara Lewis
Nursing Foal
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 20
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was told that this farms veterinarian always just puts these stitches in, rather than doing a proper caslick. In fact, the seller was not familiar with the "normal" caslick procedure where the vulva is fused together. Apparently the stitches had come out of this mare, as she had no signs of ever being closed. We pulled a culture, just in case. BTW, can't EVER talk my vet into doing a cytology . I've thought of buying the kit myself.

My thought was that these stitches could actually be a place where debris could accumulate and cause infection, rather than preventing it. I hope I'm wrong. I considered answering her email with advice against doing this, but decided I needed a more professional opinion first .
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1251
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to agree with you...I see that as more of an infection harbor than a prevention. Yikes. Keep me posted on what you find out.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2322
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If your mare has poor enough reproductive conformation to require a Caslick's procedure, then you're wasting your money having a uterine culture done without a cytology smear. You stand a greater chance of getting a contaminant and spending money unnecessarily treating it - with the associated risks of superinfection - than you do of getting a reliable reading. The only reasons I can think of that your vet would refuse to do a cytology smear are that (a) they are not educated in equine reproduction; or (b) they are planning on making more money out of you by performing an unnecessary procedure (treatment of a contaminant). Either way you want to find another vet...

As far as just stitching the vulval lips together instead of performing a true Caslick procedure... sounds like someone else needs to find another vet for breeding work too... :-( The only other possibility would be if the breeders themselves stuck the sutures in (which is a waste of time as you now know).
 

Barbara Lewis
Weanling
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 23
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The culture did come back clean on this mare. This leads me to believe that the sutures didn't stay in long.

The mares conformation, IMO, does not dictate the need for a caslick. Unfortunately, quite a few vets seem to just do them routinely, whether or not they are needed. I think those vets must all be males .

I found this page and wanted to point others to it: http://www.equine-reproduction.com/articles/cytology.shtml?survey27603

I worked with one vet in another state who used a little cap that was on the end of his culture sleeve to collect a sample for a cytology. He just rotated the sleeve inside the mare, and tissue was collected in that cap. The swab was also used, for a culture.

The cytology was done on the premises, before making a decision as to whether or not he needed to bother sending the culture sample. I thought that was pretty clever, and so simple. I was never able to find the swab with that type of sleeve.

It sure would save a lot of money to do this on the farm. My vet charges $85 to do a culture, plus the $60 farm call. Treatment, of course, is a small fortune. I've seen the cytology kits in repro catalogs. All things considered, the cost is reasonable. May I ask how you collect the cytology sample (type of swab, etc.)?

Jos, I want to thank you once more for the service you give to the breeders here. I know you are a very busy man, but always find time to answer, in detail, all the questions here. I just want you to know that you are highly appreciated, and such a value to the members of this forum. It is such a comfortable feeling to know that if we have questions, no matter how small, we can find our answers here. Veterinarians are not always available, nor do most of them have your reproduction experience. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 2284
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos "DITTO" You are the Best!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2329
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The culture did come back clean on this mare. This leads me to believe that the sutures didn't stay in long.

That or the swab didn't pick up a pathogen that was further up in the uterus, and because there was no cytology smear performed - which would have shown presence of inflammatory cells - you were led to believe that your mare was "clean" with a false negative result. Or your mare has a yeast infection, and because the culture was grown looking for bacteria, a yeast growth was not identified - which would most likely have been seen on a cytology smear as the yeast capsules stain and are typically visible on a cytology smear...

I worked with one vet in another state who used a little cap that was on the end of his culture sleeve to collect a sample for a cytology. He just rotated the sleeve inside the mare, and tissue was collected in that cap. The swab was also used, for a culture.

That is the Kalayjian swab which is a single-guarded swab. I have to admit to preferring the McCulloch swab, which is a double-guarded swab, and which in my opinion is consequently less likely to return a false-positive with a contaminant.

May I ask how you collect the cytology sample (type of swab, etc.)?

We use the McCulloch swab and roll the swab onto a microscope slide. One can either take two swabs (the first being used for culture if deemed desirable, the second for the cytology smear), or use one swab and sterile microscope slides. Preparation and reading of cytology smears is very simple, and in fact is one of the things that we teach in our 3-day short courses in the "wet lab" portion on mares (follow that link for more detail on our courses).
 

Barbara Lewis
Weanling
Username: Baraka

Post Number: 24
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did learn about cytology in your short course with wet lab. That's also where I learned about equipment, how to inseminate, collect, and do treatments. Long story short, you taught me all I needed to know in order to run a successful stud, and do it all alone. I took your course every other year, resulting in 3 courses. Lately I have been unable to attend, due to a schedule change (Arkansas). I LOVED the courses, found them spellbinding. IMO, the manual alone is worth the cost of the course.

It looks like I am going to have to buy that cytology kit. As said before, my vet absolutely refused to do one. Do you always do both, or do you ever base the use for a culture on the cytology report?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2330
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly how much diagnostic work is done, and in what order, will depend upon the individual situation. e.g.:

If you are breeding 100 mares, statistically, 60% are going to get pregnant on the first cycle, so it would be a huge waste of money doing c+c on all of them. In that situation, one is better off starting the diagnostic work on the 40% that don't get pregnant on the first cycle (i.e. run c+c on them), and then step up the diagnostics on the approximately 40% of them that don't get pregnant on the second cycle (so you could for example run just a cytology on the second cycle, and then run a culture and cytology or biopsy and culture on the third). OTOH, if one is breeding only 1 mare, then - statistically - 60% first-cycle pregnancy rate means no pregnancy, so one is better off increasing the odds and doing the c+c on the first cycle.

Whether to do both a culture and cytology or just the cytology will again depend upon the individual situation. Certainly if one is going to do one and not the other, we would do the cytology and not the culture, but we would not recommend having to make that decision! :-) If one needs a "quick and nasty" decision to be made as to whether to breed a mare on the current heat cycle (i.e. no time to get culture results back before ovulation), then doing just a cytology smear can give you a hint as to which direction to go (breed/don't breed) based upon absence or presence of inflammatory cells. The risk of relying solely on a cytology smear is the possibility of encountering a Pseudomonas aeruginosa presence, which can be a commensal organism - one that is not currently causing an inflammatory response, but which may in the future. Pseudomonas is unusual in that is has this ability to "hide" and not cause an inflammatory response, but to surface later. A culture would pick up that type of a situation, whereas a cytology smear would not. Typically therefore, both a cytology smear and a culture are recommended.



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