By applewood (220.127.116.11) on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 12:06 pm: Ok, I have a mare at my barn that the owner has not been able to get in foal for 3 years. She is not a maiden mare and has had 3 other foals her youngest foal is 3 years old. She is 18 years old now. She was bred to my stallion and we got her in foal. Her last bred date Was March 7th we checked her in foal, and now checked her blood and her test came out 2.5. The vet suggested a shot of progesterone right away and recheck her blood in 10 days to see if her body naturally adjusted.. If not regumate..
The owner said she never has had a problem before and has never ever been tested so this could be her normal level.. I disagree feel that if this is normal she would of never carried a foal full term at these levels. She siad she is not doing anythign because there is no Scientific proof progesterone or Regumate does any good...
What do you think?
ELizabeth Hardy (18.104.22.168)
Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 07:17 pm:
Hmm suspecting mare is reabsorbing and she is doing this because of low progesterone levels.
I agree with your vet.
AS for the owner Unless she has routinely tested her progesterone levels she really can not say she has never had this problem before.
This may very wellbe why she could not get the mare pregnant the last 3 yrs.
Every pregnancy is not always the same... and the fact the mare is 18 could inidcate some age related problems are now cropping up. IF she does not remain if foal would have her Cervix biopsied and do a further work up.
As for the Owner's idea there is no scientific evidence to indicate progesterone therapy is not effective in maintaining a pregnancy... I would like to know where she went to vet school.. because she is way off base..by 100 miles.
My mare is pregnant and has maintained her pregnancy because she is on regumate.
We started breeding her in june.. She would come into season be bred and confirmed pregnant but would eventually be receptive to the stallion and a ultrasound confirmed no pregnancy....(even though a prebreeding ultrasoound showed a good developing folicle.) this happened several times til I requested she be tested for progesterone levels.. and yes she was low..
she was put on a 10 day trial of regumate prior to her last breeding.. taken off the regumate bred.. confirmed pregnant and started back on regumate...
At the vets suggestion I am keeping her on regumate til 30 days prior to delivery date..
And yes she is doing fine she is still pregnant.
Her breeder uses regumate on all his pregnant mares... and he has very good success rates with getting his mares infoal ( most of his mares are older 18+ yrs.) My mare's dam is 20yrs old and is currently in foal again due in June 2002.
So I totally disagree with this mare owner's idea there is no scientific evidence.. all she has to do is read any book on equine reproduction to ascertain the efficacy of Regumate... Good luck
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 07:01 pm:
This is just a tid-bit for Elizabeth. Actually I believe that Angus McKinnon (reproduction specialist) in Australia tested progesterone and its efficacy in maintaing pregnancy. It was found that progesterone is not useful in maintaining pregnancy in mares who have a history of abortion. regumate is the only useful choice for those mares. Thought you would enjoy this info. think it was a stduy conducted in 1997. its good stuff:>
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 04:36 pm:
I also thought you'd also like to know that the mare in applewood's post did get pregnant on the first breeding (in March) and had a large healthy embryo with a heart beat at 46 days post breeding. The reproductive specialist that I had been in contact with after her low progesterone test was the one that told me that there is no SCIENTIFIC evidence supporting regumate or progesteron, only ANECDOTAL evidence.
My mare is due Feb. 14, 2003 and has had no regumate.
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 09:34 pm:
As anyone who knows me will attest, I believe that there is far too much Regumate used to "maintain a pregnancy", and that it is often used in the place of good diagnostics. For example, I think that often $300 of Regumate is used in an effort to maintain a pregnancy, where 75 cents of oxytocin would have cleared the endometritis and done the same thing!
Having said that, I do have to defend Regumate a little. It is indeed true that there has been no research that has shown that it maintains pregnancies in "low progesterone" mares, but that is not because the research failed to prove that, but because there has not been research conducted! The reason there has been no research is because it is pretty much impossible to get a suitable controlled group of "low progesterone" mares together. You would need to have all mares with low progesterone for the same reason, and one of the big eternal questions is "is this mare losing the pregnancy because of low progesterone, or is the progesterone low because she is losing the pregnancy?".
While there has been no research outlined as above, there has been research using mares that were bred and then ovariectomized after 35 days of pregnancy (when the endometrial cups would have grown in causing release of eCG and formation of secondary CL's on the ovaries that secrete progesterone to maintain the pregnancy). After removal of the ovaries, half of these mares were given Regumate, the other half not. Those mares in the first group that were given the Regumate did (for the most part) maintain their pregnancies, while those in the second group (no Regumate) didn't.
It's not therefore entirely fair to say that there has been no research that suggests that there is a likelihood that Regumate may assist in maintaining pregnancies - but there hasn't been any research into it's use in mares with naturally "low progesterone" - and that is where the anecdotal evidence comes into play. And you're stuck with that darned eternal question: low progesterone = pregnancy loss or pregnancy loss = low progesterone?
ELizabeth Hardy (22.214.171.124)
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:07 am:
Jos I agree with you that Regumate is used far to often and too much... but with my mare she was madien and we started trying to breed her in june. I only went to regumate as a last resort and after she was tested low on a bloodwork series for progresterone Neither the vet nor the breeder seemed to think that she would benifit from Oxytocin . She was frequently ultrasounded and there did not ever appear to be a fluid problem...
As for 300$ for the regumate.. that is only for 90 days... Callit being over cautious but both Vet and breeder suggested she remain on Regumate. I wish it would have been as simple as one shot of Oxytocin post breeding..
All I know now is she is 7 months preg and I swear I felt the foal move yesterday.
i have a question. I'm getting my mare bred AI this year. I tried to have her pasture bred last year and she never caught. I"ve had problems before with her totally ignoring or wanting nothing to do with the stallion, and also, she seems to have a hard time being nervous when taken to new places and exposed to new horses. The stallion i'm breeding to is VERY expensive and i'm worried that she'll have problems again this year. would you wait till she comes into cycle in march, and the vet starts ultrasounding her, cuz she's already had 3 healthy babies, or would i be jumping the gun to start her on Regumate, would that possibly only mess things up more? She's been running free range on my cousins ranch all year, good grass and now she's with a band of horses at the ranch being fed hay, but no grain. So it'd be kinda difficult to moniter giving her anything. I'd have to move her again, and that would just had more stress to her in the middle of the winter too....what do you suggest?
We also have a mare on Regumate. She was short cycled with regumate and then given Estrumate before breeding. My question is what should her levels be during her 5th month.. Her blood work just came back with levels of 1.2.. Not knowing what it should be, I want to know what the standard at this time should be. The vet set a goal of getting her off the regumate by month 8. Hopefully she can be taken off. It is very costly. The vet thinks she is having problems because of her weight and the fact that it has been 5 years since her last successful pregnancy. She is very fond of her food and she had an injury to her pasturn and heel bulb that caused her to pile on the pounds. We feed good hay and grain, always mindful of her being pregnant and overweight. We only supplement with Mare Plus and minerals.. I cut out any flax and BOSS that I give my other horses. Any other suggestions on supplements that could be beneficial?
Hi Steve: I am not sure about the levels, but my mare, Sweetie, who is 8 years old (this is her 5th baby) was on regumate for 60 days. When vet confirmed her in foal on day 14, she pulled her blood and said she was a little low and had a little fluid, so she wanted to put her on it for 60 days....she came and checked her levels at 60 days and just said she was doing fine and we could discontinue...so I didn't ask what they were and what they needed to be. I really didn't think she needed to be on it, but with this being my first baby (that I bred)...I wanted to be safe and not sorry. Sweetie went a year without a foal, so maybe that is why....maybe someone with more knowledge can help us....
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