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Gelding Mounting Mares

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Methods » Gelding Mounting Mares « Previous Next »


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Horsetalk
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My aunt and I keep our horses together. She has a 13 year- old Appy gelding who was gelded @ a pretty young age. I was watching the mares and him anda nother gelding in the pasture and he mounted two of our mares who came into season shortly after. Maybe this was just a coincidence. What could be going on here?
Thanks!!!
Horsetalk
 

Mary
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 08:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know about your horse's circumstance, but the gelding I had who did that had been 'proud' cut. Gelded AFTER he'd been bred before. He wasn't rotten and studdish, he just mounted my poor old mare when ever she came in heat. I eventually separated them. Good luck.

Mary
 

horsetalk
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, thanks. but, i talked 2 the guy my aunt bought him from. He said he was gelded as early as possible. Still lookin 4 an answer.
Thanks!
 

Jos
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Contrary to popular belief, some geldings will display an erection, mount a mare, and perform a "breeding". They will not however produce sperm, although there may be pre-ejaculate present. These geldings do not necessarily have to be "proud cut" for this to happen.

Such a gelding can be very detrimental to the reproductive health of a brood-mare as infection can be caused and/or transferred as a result.

If your gelding is merely mounting the mares, but not "breeding" them, then essentially the only risk is physical damage from someone getting kicked or hurt, rather than disease.
 

horsetalk
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 04:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the help!
horsetalk
 

Horsetalk
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know this sounds stupid, but is there anyway to stop this?
Horsetalk
 

C. Earley
Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 12:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a horse that just turned 3. He was gelded 3 months ago, never been bred, and I have seen him mounting our two mares. Will he continue to show "stallion behavior" not only in the mounting of mares, but the attitudes stallions generally have around other horses? Could there be some hormone therapy for these bad boys???? Does anyone have advise or what I can expect?
 

Jos
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2001 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As long as it is determined that the colts were correctly gelded - in other words all testicular material was removed - about the only solutions would be to remove the gelding from a situation where mares are present, or possibly try putting him on the hormone "Regumate".

Some colts sometimes have testicular material left behind during the gelding process which still secretes testosterone and will result in stallion-like behaviour, if not actual sperm production. These animals can be identified by using hormone assays to determine testosterone levels before and after stimulation with another hormone introduced called hCG. Further surgery may assist in dealing with the situation.

With a colt that has just been gelded, I would wait probably 6 months post-gelding before becoming too concerned that the behaviour will not decrease.
 

horsetalk (208.23.115.162)
Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 08:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the help
horsetalk
 

Kelly (63.172.47.219)
Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just as Jos suggested, Regumate will make a difference if any testicular material was left behind.

Learned stallion-like behavior, may be a bit more difficult to deal with. I would suggest turning him out with some older bred mares. They will change his mind in short order. The sooner that his "behavior" is curbed, the better. The longer that he is allowed to exhibit stallion behavior, the harder it will be to deter.
 

Shawn (195.157.153.70)
Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can anyone tell me how long you should keep a newly gelded horse away from mares. My vet told me to keep him away from mares for 2 weeks, but I have since been told 5 weeks by another vet. Who is correct? I'm now very concerned as I kept him for 3 weeks but then turned him out with mares. Could he have covered one (or more)? HELP!
 

Karen (216.64.203.139)
Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Usually 6 weeks is more the norm, as technically, sperm can be present in the reproductive tract for that long before they are reabsorbed. Withough the testicals, after that time, no more will be produced. But any that WERE produced before the stallion was gelded are capable of impregnating a mare until they are reabsorbed. I know that it can and does happen that newly gelded horses have impregnated mares, but I personally don't know of any such instances. Has your horse ACTED studdy toward the mares? Were any of them cycling? If you are concerned, I would have any "suspicious" mares he was with within two months of being gelded pregnancy checked.
 

Shawn (195.157.153.70)
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Karen, Yes he did behave 'studdy' and was more than obliging to the mares who both came into season. I am now wondering how I stand legally as I followed my vets advise, but it seems that the advice could have been incorrect. One of the owners of the mare is already threatening legal action if her mare is in foal, and from what you say, she certainly could be.
 

Karen (216.64.203.139)
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, the first order of business would be to have the mares pregnancy checked. Then, if either or both ARE in foal, how far along are they? If it's early (say, in the first couple of months) it's simple enough to abort the pregnancy through the use of prostaglandin injections. This is inexpensive, and although the mare may sweat and act uncomfortable for about a half an hour after the shot, it is otherwise pretty benign. If the mares ARE pregnant, and are farther along than a couple of months, it becomes much more complicated. I would definitely check with the vet though, on the mares' conditions and how best to address the situation.

Of course, if neither mare is in foal, that's very good news and everyone should be relieved. How old was the stallion? Had he bred mares before he was gelded? I can't advise you on your legal standing - but hopefully, it won't be an issue. I'm very curious to know what happens.
 

Kelly (63.172.47.218)
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 02:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just as Karen suggested, if this is within the last month, give all the mares that were exposed a shot. It is simple, and efficient. Do not fool around.

However, do have the owners either request the shots from the vet themselves, or have them sign a release for you to do so. Someone that threatens legal action is not to be taken at their word.

I think that I would find another vet.
 

shawn (195.157.153.70)
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 07:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Karen & Kelly! Unfortunately this was back in November, so it would be too late to abort. My horse is 2.5 years old and had covered a mare before being castrated. I trusted my vet's advise as he is an Enquine vet and not a General Practice vet. It was only after the event that I was told that it was possible for him to still cover a mare. I have searched the www ever since and have found conflicting advise. Some vet sites say 2 weeks, others say 5 weeks. I don't know where I will stand legally as I acted on my vet's advise. Also, the owner of the mare made no attempt to keep her mare away from my horse. It was only after the event that she complained and threatened to sue me. Only time will tell now. I'll keep you informed.
 

Kelly (63.172.47.201)
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand how upsetting this all is for everyone concerned. Legally speaking, whomever accepted money and responsibility for the care of the horses in question is liable, unless a release form has been signed.

The stable owner or manager should have let all concerned parties know that the newly gelded horse would be put into the pasture with other breedable mares.

If the mare owner was aware of the situation and agreed to keep her mare in the same pasture, she must accept responsibilty for the consequence. She could have asked her vet about the possibilities of conception. If she accepted your vet's opinion, she did it of her own free will.

If you did not represent yourself as an expert or professional in this situation, all is well. If you are the stable owner and accepted boarding money from the mare owner, you may have a problem. If on the other hand, you did tell her about the situation and she elected to keep her mare in the pasture, that was her decision.

It all boils down to who was the responsible care taker of the animals and what information was given to whom in respect to the situation. Good luck with it all.
 

Shawn (195.157.153.70)
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 06:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks again Kelly. The situation was/is this...

We are both liveries (neither one of us owns or manages the yard). After the 3 week period (2 weeks that vet told me to wait and an extra week for safe measure) after castration I put a notice up in the yard telling everyone that I intended to turn my horse out with the others on a certain day. I also pinned my vet's invoice on the board so that everyone could see the actual date that he was castrated (again, thinking 2 weeks was the waiting period). I was then told, by others, that my horse had been mounting this particular mare and the owner was very upset and threatening to sue me if her mare was in foal. At no time did the owner ever approach me personally. I later discovered that she had also telephoned MY vet to confirm the castration date. I feel that I acted responsibly based on the information I was given. Surely if this lady was concerned, she should have removed her mare from the main turnout field or approached me personally? She has since told me herself that she will sue me if her mare is in foal, but I would hope that the law would see that I acted responsibly. Only time will tell.
 

Kelly (63.172.47.207)
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 09:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Based on this information, I think that you acted in a most responsible manner. If you lived in Texas, you would be fine! She had ample time and the information to make her decision. The fact that she did call a vet confirms that she took the responsibility to make an informed decision, and allowed her mare to remain.
 

Kitty Evans (165.154.76.149)
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 08:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can you tell me how long I have to keep my horse on hormone therapy after he has been castrated?
 

Jos (63.24.56.28)
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What hormone do you have him on? There is no need for any hormone to be administered in association with castration.

If you have him on Regumate, then probably 4 to 6 weeks following castration will make a significant difference if he is not an older stallion.
 

Kat (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 216.163.255.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a "new" horse owner I was amazed and appalled that our 9 year old gelding mounted and entered our 4 year old mare. I was not on hand for this display of "affection" my husband was. We do not know the "history" of our gelding, but I am very concerned about the mare. She is a registered paint/quarter with good bloodlines and this gelding is a nobody. I would hate to see her infected or hurt by this behaviour in any way. Could someone just tell me that it is OK and No Big Deal, before I lose my mind? Thanks for any advise you can offer....
 

TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.141
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kat- I have had geldings that would occassionly mount mares, and also a few geldings that would mount and penetrate. There are a few concerns for both horses.

The mare could pick up some bacteria that could lead to infections. If you intend on breeding this mare, be sure to have the culture and cytology test done. This is the very reason that I have had some problems with mare owners that refused to have the test done. They insisted that their mares were maiden mares and therefore, did not need any culture taken. As you have now witnessed, a stallion is not needed for mounting and penetration to occur.

I would keep this gelding separte so that this behavior is not repeated. The gelding could become less focused on training, riding, etc., if he is worried about covering the mare. There is also the situation of injury possiblity when this mounting is attempted. The mare could kick him, or she could be injured trying to avoid contact.

It is not something that you should be paniced about, but these concerns should be addressed.

Hope this helps.
 

Anonymous
 
Posted From: 68.219.251.254
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my mare is in heat and she will nuzzle and back up into our 2 geldings with her tail held to the side, she also "pretends" to urinate. she squats but nothing comes out. the two geldings will squeal and try to jump the fence between them, if i let her in with the geldings will they mount her? do horses mount for fun?
please help,
helpless sisters
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10137
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As you can see from the above posts, geldings can and will mount and breed a mare. It is therefore inadvisable to have your mares in with geldings that behave that way.

As for mounting for fun - no, they are mounting with an urge to reproduce (even though they are gelded). Nature creates a strong drive to produce the next generation! "Fun" is therefore not what is in their mind...
 

marlene (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 64.136.26.225
Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 03:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a gelding, age 5 years, he was cut at 9 months. I moved him to a new location recently with two mares in adjoining fields. He is showings all the signs of a stallion, he and another gelding are pawing and rearing up at each other. I saw my horse cut and all 3 pieces were removed. Any suggestions, I will move my horse but cannot till fall.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 129
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it is probabally just the gelding establishing pecking order, watch and see what happens let them do their thing as long as no one gets hurt. Once they have the order established they will be ok, maybe sometimes showing who is dominit.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10211
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like they may just be playing to me. If they're not physically harming each other it might be the best thing for them both - keeping horses stalled and alone is actually not a particularly natural way for them to live! :-)
 

melissa
Breeding Stock
Username: Mbgirl

Post Number: 156
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Help!!!We have a 13 yr old gelding horse. This horse was gelded as a colt. We have had him around alot of mares in the past he has never try to mount one until now. Today this 13 yr old gelding is out in the pasture mounting this 13 yrs mare, just like a stud. I am afraid my daughter will get hurt when riding him at the barrel shows. How can we get him to stop this behavior? I don't want him hurting my daughter at the shows. The gelding has always been around mares, what is up with him now.I don't want to sound sick, but he was putting it in and all like a stud.
THANKS MELISSA
 

Kim Winter
Breeding Stock
Username: Clafairy

Post Number: 242
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 02:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa - Im not sure you need to worry about him - We had a 14hh cob gelding that used to ride my 16hh TB all the time, she never came in cut or bruised even though the gelding was wearing shoes - the stallion I covered with once did more damage than this gelding ever did, and he would never do it while being ridden or worked in hand - only out at pasture. Just my experience, I hope it rests your mind a little though
 

Jennifer
Weanling
Username: Jennifer_d

Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa,

I agree with Kim, I have a gelding that will mount my mare in the pasture, but not even think twice about it under saddle or around us for that matter.
 

Jennifer Graef
Nursing Foal
Username: Kakadu

Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 07:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would argue that no stallion I have ever met cared one bit about reproducing. They were in it for a good time and thats it. Just like with our own human urges. Nature made it feel good so we would enjoy doing it, the byproduct is reproduction. Stallions wouldn't do something that wasn't enjoyable to produce offspring. I don't think they care one bit about conception. Now mares on the other hand sometimes have that disgusted look on their face and seem to have more invested in the act then just a good time.

(Message edited by Kakadu on April 04, 2006)
 

Megan A Brown
Neonate
Username: Fabmeg

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 08:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jennifer That is so true!
Think about the studs that have deffient prefrences in mares. One of the Stud I know is the most easy going guy but he has a thing for blonds. When I first met him I thought he was a gelding, we were doing accupunture on him in crossties and had a mare in heat tied right in front of him. He didn't even bat an eye lash. But if you lead a palmino by, regardless of her reproductive status He drops and starts carrying on. My Stud loves roans, he only has one roan girlfriend but he always spends more time teasing her than anyone else. There also seem to be some mares that are just bombshells. My 10 month old filly drives the boys wild. The newly gelded colts are in love with her. The teasing stud has to walk past her pen to get to the open mares, and always has to stop to talk to her. My Stud, her Dad, is also maddly in love with her. Probably because she's a roan. We were trying to take some best of get photos and Ty thought he needed to breed her. I explained to him that that was wrong on various levels but he didn't seem entierly convinced. I'm thinking of changeing her name to Lolita.
 

Gwen Sams
Neonate
Username: Missrightwing

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 11:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The stud at our barn is the same way. My mare is a palomino and he has a thing for them. Besides that, he just loves her to death! She can be 10 months pregnant and he is just talking up a storm to her. She aids in this as well, of course, as she never considers the fact that she isn't in heat.
 

Debbie
Neonate
Username: Deede

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 5 year old roan that has just been cut about 4 weeks ago. I found out after I bought him that when they cut him they only found 1 testicle. He is still showing stud behavior and mounting my mare. Can he still have the other testicle and it not have dropped?
 

Megan A Brown
Breeding Stock
Username: Fabmeg

Post Number: 178
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YEs!! OH MY GOOODNESS YES!!
If they didn't find that testicle, It is probably in his abdomen. It probably isn't producing viable sperm but, it could be! Have the people you bought him from had him a long time? If they have had him a while they should know if the was "gelded" once before as a baby and they only found the one. It's possible that the testicle removed four weeks ago was the one that wasn't dropped when they gelded him as a colt. But it is just as likely, if not more so that he has an abdominal testicle will have to be removed to stop the stallion behavior. Poke around down there and see if you can find a solid mass on his inner flanks that you can move around under the skin. He may be a "high flanker." That kind can usually be dealt with cheaper than an abdominal testicle. Horse with the retained testicle often have more behavior problem than a normal stallion. We had some friends that were breeding a stud back to some of his sister and ended up having 50% of their colt crop have the abdominal testicle. They were the worst behaved little horses I have ever been around! Good reason not to inbreed.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 935
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 01:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is quite possible that the testicle is still present. If retained abdominally, it will not be producing viable sperm owing to the too-high temperature for sperm production. If lower in the inguinal canal though it may be producing a few viable sperm. There is an article that discusses different types of cryptorchidism in our articles section (follow that link).

Do not forget that some geldings - very definitely without testicles - will still mount and breed a mare, so that behaviour is not proof positive of a retained testicle.
 

Megan Diehl
Weanling
Username: Megan

Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 13 year old gelding that still mounts mares and we have done test and poked around and found nothing wrong with him. But one of our mares will still back up to him. We have had to seperate him and keep him with another gelding, plus put him on a hormone supplement to keep from getting those urges, even over the fence.
Good luck!
 

Megan A Brown
Breeding Stock
Username: Fabmeg

Post Number: 181
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I only say it is possible because I know a pony that was the result of an cryptorchid breeding. the stallion was retained on both sides and sold as a gelding before my friends bought him. You could barely plapate the end of one of the testical, it would be there some days and not others. He was our friends teasing stud and he got out one night and breed one of their rope horses. No one thought any thing of it untill the mare started looking fat. She deilverd a fine little red roan pony filly. As the Crytorchid pony is the only pony or roan on the place, which is 10 miles from the nearest road or other property, process of elimination, he must be the sire. One in a billion, yes, but still possible.
 

Debbie
Neonate
Username: Deede

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 04:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was told my 5 year old roan was used for stud service until he was gelded about 4weeks ago,but then again I was also told he was broke.
HE ISN'T, I've just never seen a gelding fully mount and be erect and ejaculate, and my mare backs up for him and she just loves him.}

(Message edited by Deede on July 24, 2006)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 936
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the stallion was retained on both sides and sold as a gelding before my friends bought him. You could barely plapate the end of one of the testical, it would be there some days and not others.

This is not an abdominally retained testicle, but one that is retained in all probability within the inguinal canal. As I noted above, such a retention may indeed still result in the production of sperm, but an abdominal retention will not. An abdominal retention will not be palpable - any portion - either.
 

Olivia Farmer
Neonate
Username: Olivia

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi I have believe a 6 yr old mare....before we moved her to where she is staying currently she has a a stable to there was a horse who was a gelding but had only 1 testical removed the other one never dropped...Could it be possible for him to have reproduced with my mare....Cause i have noticed a considerable weight gain recently and not sure...she is feed the same amount of grain and hay as the other three horses that are there and non of them have gained as much weight as she as not even the other mare and the other two horses are gelded...please help shoud i be worried...Thanks}
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1672
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would depend upon where the retained testicle resides. If it is abdominally retained, then the stallion will almost certainly be sterile, but if it is inguinally retained, then he may be fertile.

Have your mare pregnancy checked if there is any doubt.
 

Olivia Farmer
Neonate
Username: Olivia

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 11:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you very much....I will found out if the other testicle is abdominally or inguinally retained and have my mare checked to see if see is or is not pregnate....Thanks so much for the help}



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