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Using Seramune And Misc. Other Questions

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Miscellaneous and Suggestions for a New Topic Category » Using Seramune And Misc. Other Questions « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Brittany Hindes
Yearling
Username: Bhindes

Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 10:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

I was wondering how do you give seramune to a newborn foal? I am new at this whole thing and have never used this before. I found out about this product in Valley Vet Supply and was just wanting to know some info about it and how it works. Does this replace the imunnity in the colostrum? I am just a little concerned for when my next foal is due out of the same mare. My mare foaled at the end of March but was leaking milk for approximatley 2-3 weeks before delivery. The foal did not nurse for 4 or 5 hours after it was born we checked the IG levels and they were barely reading at a little over 100 at 24 hours old. Right before she delivered I had checked her milk and it was like water. She also delivered a lethal white foal so I am not sure if just the foal did not absorb the colostrum because it was a lethal or if the mare just leaked it all out within the weeks before. She had 3 foals by the time she was 7 years old before this last one and everything went like clockwork she would wax then foaled within 3 days,then she had 5 years off . Now she is 13 and her whole last pregnancy was really weird she prematurly was bagging up had discharges, all kinds of things were off with this last pregnancy, but she still foaled at her 320 day range. I think that was the only normal thing for her. LOL. Could this be caused from the birth defect like when Woman are pregnant and something is wrong with the baby the horamones are different or is this possibly a case that she is just getting older now? I just want to be preparred for her next foal and do things right. Sorry for so many questions but it will always bug me if I don't find out why. I am worried the same thing is going to happen all over again with her leaking milk. Do you think it would be a good idea to buy some seramune when she gets closer to foaling just in case? I am trying to figure out what to do. The plasma is not cheap here about $500 or more. So please give me some advice, anything wil be greatly appreciated.

Thank You and Best Regards,
Brittany
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 3479
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2010 - 12:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brittany, buy the seramune and have it on hand in case you need it! It's $90 or so,and can save the situation. You feed it thru a tube or a bottle, it is the only equine based colostrum replacer. If you get it then don't need it in 2011, it keeps for 3 yrs unopened in the fridge. The way I look at it, it doesn't make much sense NOT to buy it. After this last year, I will always have colostrum replacer on hand. It's better to have it and not use it than it is to not have it and need it. As far as your mare is concerned and previous pregnancies....I think she's been thru a series of unfortunate events....adn that many are probably unrelated.
I'm hoping all goes better for you next year. Has that gorgeous black stallion been tested for LWO??
 

Brittany Hindes
Yearling
Username: Bhindes

Post Number: 83
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2010 - 07:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Diana,

Thank you for the advice. I was thinking that maybe I will buy it just to have on hand. How do you give it to a newborn? Also how do you know if you need it or not? No that stallion has not been tested for LWO, but he is a quarter horse with no Red Sonny Dee Bar breeding so everything should be ok. If we get another lethal foal out of this cross I will not be breeding her anymore. I will just have to look at it as if it wasn't meant to be for me to have her foal. I can't see her having another lethal though because she was bred to paint stallion 3 times and 1 QH, she only had a lethal this last year. I feel a bit of guilt over that too because I should have known not to breed her to him based on how loud he was. My mare is an outcross of QH breeding many generations back getting too much white, so basically she is 100% QH. This is why I never thought she would have a lethal foal. I said to myself she does not have any paint genes as she has had 3 other foals and non of them were paint foals just breeding stocks, so I am just hoping to get a live healthy baby this time.My plans with this foal are to show in lounge line as a yearling then get a couple of years in training western pleasure and be able to show at world level with him or her some day. So we will see how things go.
 

Brittany Hindes
Yearling
Username: Bhindes

Post Number: 84
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2010 - 08:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also forgot to mention this QH stallion that she was bred to has been bred to a couple of other paints and has produced all breeding stocks, so yay in a way. LOL
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 3481
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2010 - 08:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brittany, go to the search button and search the word "antifreeze"....somewhere on here, you'll find an article on how to test your mares colostrum with an antifreeze tester. Apparantly it's pretty accurate, and you'll know if her colostrum is sufficient or not. You can either tube the foal, or bottle feed it.
 

Brittany Hindes
Yearling
Username: Bhindes

Post Number: 85
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2010 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for the tip. I will be sure to buy the seramune just in case.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2889
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bear in mind that although the colostrum may be fine for antibody levels, the foal itself may not absorb them for some reason - lack of adequate nursing probably being the most common. The foal therefore needs to be tested at about 9-12 hours post-foaling to confirm adequate passive transfer. This is discussed in our article on failure of passive transfer.

We would recommend getting 2 bottles of Seramune, not one. In some instances, it is necessary to use 2 bottles to adequately elevate antibody levels in the foal, so one should test, supplement, retest and then supplement again if needed.
 

Brittany Hindes
Yearling
Username: Bhindes

Post Number: 86
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for the info Jos. I was wondering if also it was possible that they got too much Seramune would that have any side effects? Can you give them the 2 bottles of Seramune without testing in between? My vet will insist on the plasma transfusion if the levels are too low. This is something i was trying to prevent. Would it hurt to just give them the two bottles without testing the IGG levels? Would you give the foal Seramune no matter what even if the mare has adequet colostrum levels?
 

Cjskip
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 1341
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brittany, I defer to Jos, of course. But want to add my two cents worth.

If the mare does not leak milk before hand, and the foal nurses within a couple of hours, you should be okay. Giving the seramune before two hours is probably not the best thing to do, because the clock starts ticking as soon as the foal takes anything by mouth. I would want to give the foal those first two hours before I did anything. As long as the mare has good colostrum, that is the best thing for it.

My other thought is that the mare will have specific antibodies to local flora. That is why a mare should foal in the same place she has lived for at least a month prior to foaling. The seramune, as far as I know, would not have those antibodies.

Of course, no matter what, you want to get the IgG tested.

If the baby does not nurse, give the seramune with a baby bottle with a goat nipple or a regular (human) baby nipple. This way, by the time the IgG is done, the seramune will have boosted the immunity level, so you might not need a plasma transfusion. You can feed the seramune in two or even more feedings, if necessary. But I'd get it all in as soon as possible.

I used sermune for my first foal. I was so thankful to this board, as I would not have bought it otherwise. I believe it saved my foal's life. Mother dripped milk-baby didn't nurse for several hours, etc.

As for age of mare, my 20 year old mare just had a healthy foal. I will retire her after another one or two.

Unlike many mammals, mares are designed to carry a foal every year. Strange, but true.

I personally don't know anything about genetics. I wouldn't beat yourself up though. I'm sure you had no idea that you'd get a lethal white and I'm so sorry it happened. I'm looking forward to your announcement in 2011 of a healthy, beautiful baby.
 

Brittany Hindes
Yearling
Username: Bhindes

Post Number: 88
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Cjskip,

I am so sorry I should have rephrased my question. I was refering to if you really need to test in between or can you wait untill after you give them both bottles? Thank you for your input. Of course I have always had my foals tested I was just wondering if I could do it after both doses instead of in between. My mare has never had this issue in the past so I am wondering if this is something due to age or the fact that this was a lethal white with the possiblitlty of messing up her horomones? She has had 3 other completely normal healthy foals and she never dripped she would bag up, then when she would wax she always foaled within 3 days on the clock. She has always been a very predictable mare 320 days wait for wax then a foal within a couple of days. this last whole pregnancy was really weird for her. Also with her last 3 foals all of them tested way above 800 on the IgG test. So I am really not sure what she is going to do this time. I gues we will have to wait and see. Thank you for all the advice and tips everyone.

Brittany
 

Cjskip
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 1345
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 09:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry about that. Yes, you can give it all before you test. In fact, I would. That way, the chances the IgG will be normal are greater. I guess I could be wrong, but don't think so.

How old is your mare?

My 20 year old gave birth this year-no problems. In 2008, she leaked milk a lot. But I think that was due to emotional factors (no other horses around) and she was pacing a lot. Just my gut feeling.

So anyway, I doubt that her age, or even having a lethal white has anything to do with what will happen with her next foal. Does that sentence make sense? Hope so.

Good luck Brittany. I've not lost a foal yet, but I would be a nut case worrying about the next one, I'm sure. Keeping my fingers crossed for you!
 

Brittany Hindes
Yearling
Username: Bhindes

Post Number: 89
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare is only 13. She was 12 when she was bred and delivered this last foal. Everyone out at the boarding facility all say that she is getting older because I kept telling them she has never leaked before. This all was happening while she was pregnant, she was making me nervous because she was leaking. She had 5 years off from breeding then she was bred last year now this year again. By the time she was 7 she already had 3 foals. I felt bad for her because of that. That is not why we purchased her though. LOL To me she is not old enough to be having dramatic changes like that. I don't know. What do you think? This lethal was also her biggest foal not sure how much she weighed but looked to be about 140 to 150 lbs foal with a ton of leg.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2899
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 02:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Premature or inappropriate lactation may be indicative of impending abortion or an issue such as placentitis. As OLWS is a genetic issue that manifests it's results after foaling, I have my doubts that you would see premature/inappropriate lactation as a result of it, but I do certainly stand to be corrected on that not being a Paint breeder and never having had to deal with OLWS.

Cjskip covered the pros and cons of arbitrarily giving Seramune very well and I don't think I have anything to add to the summation. The only drawback to not testing the foal in between dosing with two bottles would be that you end up with double the cost possibly unnecessarily.



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