MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
SITE MAP OF EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
CONTACT US

horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
Go to the articles page
 
Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
 
Topics Page Topics Page Register for a new account Register Edit Profile Profile Log Out Log Out Help/Instructions Help    
New Posts New Posts Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Posting is restricted to registered board members only to prevent spamming of the board. We regret the necessity of this action, but hope you will appreciate the importance of the integrity of the board. Registration is free and information provided during the process will not be submitted to third parties.

Protecting foals from mountain lions

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Miscellaneous and Suggestions for a New Topic Category » Protecting foals from mountain lions « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 956
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 03:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've moved to new territory, and have been told there are mountain lions here, as well as in surrounding communities.

Does anyone know the best way to protect the mares and foals from attacks?

Please, any help will be much appreciated. I'm very concerned for my two mares and their foals, due next spring.
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 2210
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh man, that is horrible! Mountain lions can jump extremely well, so the fence would have to be very high and tough. Is there a way to light the area? I'm not sure that would even be a deterant.

If I were you, I would have a couple of Cane Corso dogs on the property. They were specifically bred to attach and kill lions. They make great family pets, but have an extreme amount of courage and are very capable to keep lions at bay. They are very protective of family and property. I only know this because my son just bought a Cane Corso and he absolutley loves her! She is such a cool dog and smart! Let me know if your interested, my son knows of breeders that haved the best quality bloodlines you would want in a Cane Corso.

Just a thought. Marilyn
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2542
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cj, I would definitely have a barn where the horses can be put away each evening inside, as most of the mountain lion attacks I've dealt with have occured at night. If it were me, I'd also own a mule or llama to run the pasture with the girls and foals during the day, just as an extra precaution. Mules will KILL mountain lions that move into their territory.
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 2214
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I never thought of that Diana, good suggestions! I love how this board works, helping each other with these wonderful ideas!

Hey Diana, did you see the pictures on the internet of the mule actually killing a mountain lion? It was amazing!
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2545
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw those, yes. Years ago. I also read that they were submitted several thousand times to the mule society to see if they could find out who owned the mule and try to confirm the story. At one point, a friend of the owner had called them and told them that the mountain lion had apparantly been shot before it came in contact with the mule. But they did reply to that by saying, shot or not, this is exactly the way a mule would act when faced with a predator of any kind in his territory. I have SEEN a mule kill a mountain lion, so the pictures weren't a shock to me. I know a cattle rancher in south TX who's calves have been attacked by mountain lions. We often hunt his property for feral hogs and mountain lions, and since the placement of a good ol' mule, we haven't seen any more mountain lions, and he hasn't lost any more calves. So, I'd definitely suggest a mule. The one who used to live next door to us was excellent coyote protection....he killed 2 or 3 during the 2 yrs we lived there.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 957
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 03:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marilyn, thank-you! Yes I would like to know breeders, particularly in Northern CA. I've been considering dogs, but was worried that ones that would kill cougars would be too aggressive to manage on unfenced property.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 958
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marilyn, thank-you! I will check out the breed. Don't go to a lot of trouble, but my e-mail address is: cheryljohnson111@gmail.com. I live in Northern Ca. Thanks so much. I've been researching breeds and there are a few that sound pretty good, but I'm afraid of them running off or killing neighbor's dogs that come onto our property. I need ones that can tolerate the cold here as well.

Diana, thank-you. We have an old shelter that we are fixing up for weather protection. Perhaps we can enclose it, but not sure. We are living in this rented place for one year, so don't want to put too much into it. BUT-my horses mean everything to me. Not just the expense of breeding, but their welfare. I'm really worried about the cougars.

I told my husband about the mules. I had heard it was donkeys, which just didn't ring true. I have to talk him into it, but I think he will agree. I'm going to look for the video online.

I've seen pictures of horses attacked by these beautiful creatures and it is horrendous, of course. A reliaible source here told me two foals were killed by mountain lions not far from here. I don't know if it was in the day time or not, but I've read accounts of horses being attacked in the daytime.

I'm sure mountain lions are protected by California law, but by George, if I ever see one near my horses: Well, let me just say they will not be protected.

Having said that, I do feel for them. We are crowding them. But they are becoming so dangerous. There was a magazine article telling of one that entered into a home, through an open patio door, took a large dog and left. What I can't figure out is that deer are thick here. Why aren't they eating them?

Anyway, I don't even want my horses to have to go through knowing one is about, since horses are naturally terrified of them.

Sorry to go on and on. I'm just very, very worried. At this point, moving is not an option. Sooooo-thank-you for your help. And if anyone else has any ideas, or wants to weigh in (and help me persuade my husband to action) please send them my way!
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2547
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They don't eat the deer b/c they are not EASY prey animals!! They're fast and have sharp hooves and horns.....your housepet, however, is fairly docile. LOL We've had coyotes coming stealing our barn cats, and some of the neighborhood animals right out of yards. This area is FULL of rabbits and other wildlife. Think of it.....would you rather (if you were a big cat) expend all your energy chasing down a deer, then trying to fight it (hoping to win and come away with little damage) or just jump that fence and take a house dog? Makes sense to me!
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 959
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 03:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hear that, Diana. I've been reading a lot about cougar behavior. It turns out, they prefer deer and kill one every 7-10 days. Go figure! But they are learning that domestic animals are easy prey.

Also turns out that killing them doesn't work. A new one will just move in.

The choices seem to be, donkeys or mules, dogs, lights, noise, or enclosed shelter. I have some serious thinking to do.
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 816
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 03:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm in Nor Cal as well, our neighbors have sheep, and they have had major mountain lion problems. We've seen the lions, and they are pretty darn bold! Had one on our front porch once, that was slightly concerning LOL.

At the time when the neighbors were having the bad problems, I only had one "target" equine. That was my mini gelding. We boarded up a stall for him, so that absolutly nothing could get in. He was never out when it was dark. During the day, he lived with several large horses. We had llamas at that time as well, they were great for allerting when there was danger.

We haven't had any lion issues in a couple years now, but with the foals, I constantly worry about it. I feed a ton of hay at night, in hopes that the foals will stay up by the barn, where I leave the lights on. Right now, I've got three weanling Welsh X pony foals, a 17 hand Oldenburg mare, her rather large two month old colt, and my friends' Hanoverian mare. I think that the Hanoverian mare would honestly try to attack something if danger should come near to those foals, she treats them as her own.

Mules and Donkeys are great protectors too. We've got three mules, and three donkeys, who my stallion lives with. They are his "protectors", as he's only 11.3 hands. A mule I used to have attempting to climb over our pipe panel fence to attack a black bear on the other side. They will go after coyotes too. Never seen one go after a lion, but I'm sure they would!

Hey Cjskip, if you need some donkeys, I've got some I can send your way if your close! I have a jennet that we got from BLM, she has attacked coyotes before. She's most likely the one to protect, though she is little.
 

Marilyn Lemke
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 2221
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I made a mistake on the Cane Corso. The Canis Pugnax, the predecessor of the Cane Corso, is the breed I was thinking of. The Cane Corso has since been bred down to have a more even temperment.

Oops, sorry about that.
 

Jennifer Bull
Neonate
Username: Mmmules

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 06:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The following is my input based on my knowledge and experiences (some things have already been mentioned). We actually raise mules in the Scott Valley in northern California and we also have mountain lions here. I make sure mares close to foaling are in the barn every night, they foal in the barn, and for the first 2 weeks mare and foal are locked up each night. After that, they are put in about a Ĺ acre paddock close to the house. The no-climb fencing is 5-feet high and there isnít any space at the bottom for animals to get in. I know a mountain lion would have no problem jumping the fence, but not sure it could jump that high with a 100+ pound kill on the way out. We do have dogs (labs) that are in the house at night, but the smell of them around the farm may deter the mountain lions from coming in the yard. I do realize that there is still a possibility I may someday lose one to a mountain lion, but I do everything possible (with the exception of keeping them locked up until they are full grown) to prevent it. Motion lights would probably be a great investment, too.

But the real reason for my response is keeping mules with mares ready to foal. The donkey mentality of protecting the herd from predators (coyotes, mountain lions, etc) is very apparent in mules. For instance, our mules are used to our dogs being around on rides and around the farm, but they are not allowed in the mule pastures as the mules would likely go after them-it may be play, but not going to take chances. They certainly will not tolerate strange dogs in their pastures and Iíve had to rescue a couple of roaming neighbor dogs that would have been trampled. The problem is that this attack mode translates to anything strange/different, including a new foal trying to get to its feet. Iíve heard of john mules (males) going over/through fences to attack new foals and a few stories of the molly mules (females) trying to steal a new foal. I keep my john mules in a pasture also with 5-foot high fencing, hot wire and an aisle (so two 5-foot fences and hot wire between them and mares with foals). The molly mules are either with the john mules or with the other horses, but still separated from mares with foals by fencing and hot wire. Coupled with the risk of a new mom being overly protective and possibly injuring the foal, mine always foal alone (except me watching ).

Having said that, a molly mule might make a good protector after the foal is a few weeks old, but I would strongly recommend against a john mule for this purpose. If you saw the way the john mules ďplay,Ē it is very rough. They will take each other down, biting and striking. I sometimes wonder if they might not kill each other.

Any way, that is my two cents. I would hate to see anyone lose a foal because of a mule-they are wonderful animals, but that is their nature. I know that there are always exceptions and I am just passing on my experience. I know that people use donkeys to protect sheep flocks from coyotes, so maybe that would be a better idea?
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2552
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very good ideas Jennifer.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 960
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 03:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, so much great info! Thank-you all sooooo much!

I hear mules and donkeys being used interchangeably. But Jennifer, you are recommending a female donkey as opposed to a mule? That is what I got out of your post. Want to be sure, since the two are so often, it seems, used interchangeably.

Marilyn, no worries. Thanks for the breed name, I'll check on it.

Samantha, I live on highway 70, between Quincy and Oroville, although I am a good hour from Oroville. I don't have a trailer yet. Still trying to trade my truck for a slant load. What would you want for one?

I want to board horses here and can only have a few, so a donkey might take up a spot, but it would be worth it.

I am going to find a way to enclose my mares and early foals in at night and keep them close to the house. I have five foot high pipe corral panels with hog wire (graduated type) about 3 ft. high, welded on the bottom. That will keep some critters out and the baby in.

Jennifer, I wondered if a cougar would understand it could not take the prey out? I suppose a young one might not have the experience to know that. Maybe it wouldn't stop them anyway.

Again, I thank all of you so much. If you, or anyone has anything to add, please do so. Sounds like it is more of a common problem than I thought!

Samantha, you had one on the porch? Yikes!!
 

Jennifer Bull
Neonate
Username: Mmmules

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even though we do own and stand a jack, I don't know a whole lot about donkeys. I would be inclined to take up Samantha's offer on a nice jennet, though, from what I have read. A molly mule might work too, but I would personally keep any new foal and mom isolated from the herd for a few days.

I won't go so far as saying mountain lions would "know" they can't get the prey out, as they have been observed jumping 3-4 foot fences with deer flung over their back (my husband and I do work for CA Fish and Game, too). I just make sure the foals are strong and the fences are as high as I could make them for any deterrent possible. Not sure if they can reason, but they sure can't drag them out easily!
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 823
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 01:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cjskip: I'm about an hour up HWY 50 from Sacramento, so a bit of a drive. If you want to lease one (I just say lease cause we'll always take it back if you don't want it), I'll be glad to let you use the jennet. She hardly eats anything, but she's a little shy. I would have to agree with going with a jennet or a molly mule, rather than a john mule.

Lemme know if your interested, my email is secretambitionstables@gmail.com


Yep, we had on our front porch, thankfully I wasn't home to see that one.... but that was before we had the donkeys and mules lol. Actually, I've been seeing a ton of deer around here lately. Making me think that the donkeys and mules really do help keep the lions away. Before, we never saw deer this close due to the lion problem.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 965
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Samantha, Very sorry I haven't responded sooner. I tried to respond via e-mail, but I cannot send via Outlook for some reason. But after some researching and thinking, I am going to turn down your generous offer of a mule.

We have a very small dog that spends her time outside with me, and I am afraid a mule may not be very friendly with her. I couldn't risk it.

We found out that cougars hunt dogs around here, so think I'd have to have at least three, very courageous, very big dogs in order to scare them off.

Soooooooo, we are going to look into mechanical means, such as motion lights with sound or sprinklers-that kind of thing, and also obstacles, of course. I'm thinking if we put up something like 10ft. high PVC pipe, upright, tied to the corral every 14in. or so, it might make them think twice. They couldn't jump through the narrow openings. It would seem more like a cage and might keep them out.

Of course, we are still going to try and have box stalls finished, by the time the foals come.

Again, thank-you one and all for your suggestions and support. And I am sending good wishes for those of you who do have mountain lion worries. Living in this beautiful wilderness does have a few drawbacks!

By the way, one of my mares is here now, for the first time in months and it is wonderful to have her with me again. I'll be worrying over her until this baby is born next spring and beyond. But hey, is there anything better to do with one's life?



Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
IMV Technologies - makers of Equine AI Equipment
Equine A.I. Equipment Supplies
Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your Veterinary Ultrasounding Needs
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Exodus Breeders Supply - Your one-stop shop for all your reproductive needs!
Exodus Breeders Supply
Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products!
Reproduction Resources: Specializing in Artificial Breeding and Embryo Transfer Supplies
Specializing in Artificial Breeding and ET Supplies
BET Pharm: Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
  International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary Information Service
 

MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | SERVICES
FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS | LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD
SITEMAP | CONTACT US