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BOBBI!!!!!!!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Miscellaneous and Suggestions for a New Topic Category » BOBBI!!!!!!! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1128
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


I'm VERY happy your girl's doing better...

(Message edited by kdgilger on October 09, 2008)
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 922
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 09:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana: ME TOO! She gets to come home today! Doing the happy dance (intigrated with the more squatty foal dance for Holly)!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 923
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim, Jonathan, Any of my Foaling Friends...I'm hoping that SOMEONE on here has dealt with a mare and ulcers before.

Any of my foaling friends out there that can give me any insight into this area?
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 924
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana: I'm going to put my topic of parasite control on this thread you invented for me...after hours of "hangin' out at the clinic" last night. I was privy to quite a lengthy discussion regarding some new studies that are out regarding internal parasite control. I'm still out on the jury with this, but its some interesting food for thought.

I have always practiced a rotational worming program since "rotational worming" became the WAY to best handle farm management. And just like the "lay baby on its back", No, "lay baby on its side", no "lay baby on its stomach" philosophy over the years, we are about to see rotational worming be thrown out the window in the future. The findings in numerous studies is that we should now practice parasite control in the following two ways:

Stick with one wormer UNTIL it no longer works BEFORE changing to a different active ingredient. Evidently what rotational worming has caused is a super parasite infestation that is becoming immune to ALL products from rotational worming. Hmmmm...interesting. So, the philosophy is, if you're using an ivermectin product, you use that until it no longer has any effect and then switch. Then, the likelyhood of a secondary resistance to say a pyrantal (sorry, bad spelling) won't be there and this product will be effective for a period of time; thus in essence, allowing the resistant parasites to die out over a several year period of time and being able to cycle an ivermectin back in that is effective.

Second philosophy: Don't worm at all if it is not affecting the horse. If the horse is maintaining weight and not experiencing health issues as a result of a parasite load, don't use any products on a regular scheduled basis. Worm them once a year and leave them be. The theories being that parasite loads and the effects of them are based on the immune factor of individual horses. If a horse has a healthy immune factor they usually are not affected by a parasite issue in the first place. So by not worming them when its not necessary, we again reduce the built up resistance of parasites so that products can be successful in ridding your horse (or cow or hog)from parasites on a as needed basis.

Interesting thoughts...what do you all think? My vets are saying its coming in the future and will probably be adopted by many of the veterinarian practices. Dr Chris says it makes a great deal of sense to him but its going to be hard to sell the idea since we've all been ingrained and beaten into our heads that proper care of our friends means that we must integrate a rotational parasite program. But, as he states, does that really "help" our friends or is it just a philosophy that we feel the need to have in order for us to feel like we're providing quality care for our animals? Hmmmmm
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1413
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

in MT i wormed 2X a year right after 1st freeze and then mid spring early summer
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 929
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It makes some sense doesn't it Jenni? I pretty much offered up my herd as guinea pigs (excluding Blossom right now). I've got three really easy, fat keepers and two that I have to work hard at keeping weight on them. So we're putting them on different programs and going to test fecal samples on them...see what proves to be most effective. I have my cattle on a rotational program and we're going to evaluate that as well. Since I run a closed herd all the way around, I would think logically that a parasite problem shouldn't be a huge issue. And, interestingly enough, with one horse with ulcers, could my other "hard keeper" be suffering from the same? Could it be that issue rather than a parasite issue? Is pouring wormers down them on a regular basis on heightening any ulcer activity? More hmmmm...
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 537
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi,Thanks for that question,i was just talking about that same subject with my sister in-law ,Why are we worming are horses with a chemical if they dont need it??should we be testing them first ??
Bobbi,Iam so happy BLOSSOM is doing so much better,you had me in tiers yesterday.
 

Linda Bauer --Rebel due 4/3/09
Breeding Stock
Username: Llazyt

Post Number: 141
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also only worm 2x a year, after 1st hard freeze and late spring/early summer. Of course I do worm mares in foal more ofen. I think it also depends on if your horse is confinded in correls or has lots of turn out time on how ofen they might need wormed. I dont usually rotate either, guess I am a "if it aint broke dont fix it kinda gal"
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 931
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks judy! I have been in tears all week...its nice to find a smile again. It is for some interesting thought on the topic of worming.

I have rotationally wormed all my livestock (and they all get it on the same day...horse, cows, pigs, dogs, cats) every 8 weeks. Yikes! This newly found theory will save me a ton of money! LOL! It will be interesting to see how or if things/conditions of animals will change when I back off of this.

Linda: I like your thought...hahaha! I've done the rotational program for so long that I developed that whole mentality of fix it before it breaks. Overmedicating can certainly be just as unhealthy...it just never dawned on my "stuck" brain.
 

Tahra Sky 3/14
Breeding Stock
Username: Tahra

Post Number: 194
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Makes sense to me. I only worm 2x a year. Freeze and spring. It seems in Montana I do my to womers about 6months apart. I have a client that only worms once a year. Her older gelding got very thin last winter and the vets said parasites. No parasites, just slowing down in the years. We put him on a probiotic and he picked up his weight.

I have a QH gelding that was always thin the last 2 winters. Again thought parasites. No but he did have the ulcers. Found out that before I got him he was on a daily wormer with a 3 month boster. Put him on Probiotic as well and he is looking great. My vet use to give me a hard time about not worming more but he never could deny the proof of my horse. I also get training horses in and for 3 days they are separated in a different field. They are wormed on the day of arrival and then the field is dragged when they are put out. Works really well.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 934
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well...I must have just been in a whole different world! LOL! I've had rotational beat into my brain for so long now. Hahaha! You are all just light years ahead of me. LOL!
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1415
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok now ill throw this one in what about worming with colidal silver its expensive to buy but cheap to make. i hear its what the lippizan stallions are wormed with.
I do rotate but its not on a strict schedule in Montana I did about 6 months apart. down here in AR I worm them as soon as I get them then on an as needed basises I was slowly trying to get everyone close to the same time but I do it once every 6 months or anytime when i start seeing those longer hairs. in the south i do think you need to worm more often than colder climates
 

Kim Peavy/Blk&White Pinto Colt 6/16
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 310
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Central Florida worming....my vet had me do a fecal sample in April, if they had worms, worm them...then not again until september. Mine had no worms in april, so no worming until september...then rotate every other month, do another fecal in april...their studies show that the worms cannot survive in the Florida heat, therefore if they are clean in April, the chances of them picking up worms are nill, because if a horse dropped some in their poo...they would not survive to be picked up by my horses. My horses did great all summer long and I just gave them their wormer in September....I was so happy to not have to worm them and put the medication into their bodies. They say the less the better and when they really are sick, the antibiotics they have to give them work much better because they have not had all the wormers in their systems. I have had some lively discussions with horsey people around here on this topic, they are once a month or at least every other month year round here and do not want to hear of any other way to do it. I'm happy with how my worming plan went this year...never saw a worm in my horses either....
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1140
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I worm dec and june...and they are on daily dewormer. (as per the vet's recent recommendation to keep them from colicking) (and yes, it has worked)
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 944
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I typically don't post on the weekends. But I came into the office to give my brain a much needed rest. I also used the "BOBBI!!!!" post that Diana set me up with to combine how my babies are doing.

Friday was going to be a good day. Blossom & Moose got to come home. She was doing well, but as of yesterday afternoon, she started to not walk well again. I'm getting concerned again about what is going on with her. We'll see what Monday brings...

I've downloaded a picture of her and I apologize for her condition, this has been so hard on her. She's tired of being messed with and so I have to do her hoof wrap, leg wrap and knee wrap in sessions as she just doesn't want to do it all at once. I'll tell you what we came home to on Friday evening after picking her up in the next paragraph:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/Hurt%20Horses/HorsePictures0 61.jpg

Back to Friday evening: We pull up to home with the horse trailer, relieved to have Blossom & Moose back home. My buckskin gelding is laying in the main field. Now, this is about feeding time so usually we have ALL the animals carrying on when we pull in. Everyone comes down to be fed, but him. We got Blossom & Moose settled down, fed everyone and he wouldn't come down. He had stood up but not moved an inch. This is what we found, and when I find out who was on our property poaching deer and is too INCREDIBLY STUPID to figure out that a horse laying down in the field ISN'T a deer...this is what they're going to look like as well.

What hollow point bullets do to a horse:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/Hurt%20Horses/HorsePictures0 64.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/Hurt%20Horses/HorsePictures0 65.jpg

My vets and I are becoming far too acquanted! Even they couldn't believe that I could leave their facility and call back within 45 minutes only to have them come to the farm due to another emergency!

Please continue to keep my horse family in your thoughts and prayers!
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1151
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi! I cannot believe someone has now shot your horse!! Good grief, when it rains it pours. I pray for some relief for you bobbi.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1432
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi you and all your animals are in my prayers
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 816
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Bobbi. I just read this. You are all in my prayers. I can imagine your rage! We had poachers come on our property years ago. Fortunately, they did not hit any horses, but as bullets flew we were out with flashlights, frantically pulling our livestock inside. And fortunately we were home.

You would think that those B.......would have had the decency to make an annonymous call to someone, when they realized it was a horse they had shot! That poor horse.

Take care dear one, and keep us posted.
 

Judy Dosher
Yearling
Username: Mom2kpbaa

Post Number: 72
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 03:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am weeping with you........Definatly will pray Gods protection over you and your horses. :'(
 

mary anne higgins
Weanling
Username: Mary_23

Post Number: 31
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 04:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you and ur horses are in my prayers.
HOW could anyone do that to a horse,hope hes feeling alot better now.
 

Jane Whritenour
Yearling
Username: Quarterhorsetimestwo

Post Number: 52
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I Just gasped... I'd kill the SOB. No questions just shots. lets see what happens to them. I'd have the sheriff out there too. & Cameras for sure. ( Now that I vented) I am so sorry you are having this luck. I hope it stops soon. They say it comes in threes.
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 809
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 06:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi I am so sorry!! That is so awful. I know I always worry during hunting season. I try to bring the horses in as close to the house at night as possible because of the poachers. This isn't the first horse I have heard of getting shot. Cattle too are in danger.
Now I don't know if this is what happened to your gelding but what the poachers do is they use a spotlight at night and when they see eyes they shoot. Idiots!!!! Plus it is illegal.
Prayers that he heals fast for you!!
 

todd dennis simmons
Nursing Foal
Username: Horsetrainer

Post Number: 16
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, Our thoughts and prayers are with you. May your gelding have a speedy recovery.
Todd and Vicki
 

Linda Bauer --Rebel due 4/3/09
Breeding Stock
Username: Llazyt

Post Number: 142
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OMG just read this. Bobbi once again you & yours horses are in my thoughts and prayers. It has always amazed me how someone could mistake a horse for a deer or elk. Just goes to show these fools just point and shoot. Very scary.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Asia born 7-11-08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1836
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 09:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reading this post upset me to no end. I had to walk away after seeing the first picture of the gunshot wound. I cryed and cryed, thinking it could easily happen to any of us. Our horses are so vulnerable to "some" hunters that don't have the sense to know any better or they just don't give a damn.

Bobbi, I can't even imagine how upset you must be and how your nerves must be totally fried. I pray God gives you strengh and quick healing for your horses.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 946
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks to you all. I whole-heartedly echo many of your thoughts on this. I am an avid deer hunter. But safety, safety, safety is ALWAYS first in line. Unfortunately, its the illegal poachers who cause trouble...not the folks out there who are responsible gamers. The only way that this could have occurred is if he had been laying down in the field and someone just pop-shotted him. He's a 1200 pound QH for Gods Sake...doesn't come close to looking like a deer. What's more frustrating is when we got home, it had just happened...blood was still pumping out of him like crazy so we missed it by minutes...probably passed the jerks on the road and didn't even know it. We worked on him from 6:30PM until midnight. Poor guy was in so much pain. What's the kicker is you can't stitch them up. They have to heal open so it will be weeks and months. And the scar, it just makes me sick as he was just a beautiful guy!

We always keep our livestock up during hunting season, but its not rifle season yet! Oh, that's right...poachers don't care. I told my husband if we find out who it is, we're taking them and tying them to a post, I'm going to rub mare urine all of them and then I'm turning my stallion loose on them! That will work for me!

I appreciate your continued thoughts. Blossom has not done well through the weekend either. She now has swelling and fluid building up on her ankle as well. The bulbs on the back of her heel/hoof have popped open and this gray gunk is coming out of it. I'm not sure what any of this means yet but I'm sure its not good. Vet will be out today, again. In the past 5 days, I've had all 5 of the equine vets at the clinic treat my animals. They're afraid to hang out too long with me now...afraid the cloud will follow them home.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1164
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, I am still in shock over all the things that are happening with your crew. (really, it's been all year, hasn't it?) I am hoping for great things for you....as you surely haven't done anything to deserve all this. God works in mysterious ways....and I hope he's setting you up for something wonderful.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Asia born 7-11-08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1837
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, I realize it's only a small portion of hunters out there that would do something like this. Careless and thoughtless few...

I was told to take Lyme and put it in the wound and it fixes it up like nothing flat. The lady I bought Zealand from this weekend told me about that. She said she had a horse with a gapping wound from a fence and flesh hanging out. I forgot why she didn't have it stitched, but she said her old time vet told her to throw Lyme on it and in no time it was healed over. She said there is no scar and you only see a little indentation where the wound is.

I thought I'd pass this on in case you wanted to try it.

Good healing vibes coming your way from Indiana, Bobbi.

God bless, Marilyn
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1442
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

prep h will grow the hair back with pigment once you get it started healing
lyme is good very similar to a product called wonder dust
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1949
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi~Deepest Sadness for you and your herd...Thank heavens it did not hit him in a vital area....Sending healing vibes your way...you need a Margarita for sure
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1950
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi~Deepest Sadness for you and your herd...Thank heavens it did not hit him in a vital area....Sending healing vibes your way...you need a Margarita for sure
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 341
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 02:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't suggest Wonder Dust. My vet always warns me against using it.

What an awful person to shoot your poor horse Bobbi :-( I'm so sorry.

I'm sending LOTS of good healing vibes for your gelding and Blossom!
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1069
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, I am so sorry to hear about all the awful things that have been happening to your babies. I hope they catch who shot your horse. From the picture it looked to me like he was a very lucky horse in that the entry bullet just missed his spine. Which one of your horses has the ulcer? My mare had one when she was a weanling before I bought her. Here is what I know. I know that you can use Gastroguard to treat them and Ulcerguard to prevent them. Their website has more info as to how horses get them etc. http://www.ulcergard.com/ Hope this helps. I will be praying for you and your babies. I hope Blossom is going to recover ok. I'll talk to you again tomorrow.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 818
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, glad to hear that your boy is still with us. Cannot imagine your horror; finding him and waiting for vet. I'm sending healing vibes for the gelding (what's his name?) and Blossom your way and hoping that this is the end of tragedy for you for a very long time!

And yes, it isn't the safe hunters who do this kind of thing!

Hang in there girl. It has to get better.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1450
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi how is every one doing now you didnt post today so I figure you stayed home to care for the gelding and Blossom you are still in my prayers.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 949
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 09:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks to you all again. You are right Jenni, I stayed home with the sickos yesterday. I bounced between spoiling the two of them. Poor Nash and Blossom are in two seperate round pens (they have been the two I've had the longest out of my current batch of horses; bought them both as three year-olds so they're buddy mates) and quite frustrated that they can't be with other horses. This is when you find out how "barn sour or buddy sour" your horses really are.

Its another vet visit again today. We're going to do some nerve blocking on Blossom to see if we can get her sound. There doesn't seem to be any explanation on why she won't put pressure on that foot. Even with the little stress fracture, it just doesn't seem "reasonable" in everyone's mind that she should be so incredibly lame. She did so well for three days putting weight on it and walking on it to go all the way back to hobbling around on three legs again. And, she is the one who has the ulcer issue. Thanks for the helpful info charlene. We've talked about putting her on those same products when we get her over this. The daily dose of Bute is irritating the ulcer and certainly not helping the situation. She's still eating so we've opted right now to keep her on the Bute. If she goes off her feed again, we'll take her off of it. If we are successful in getting her nerve blocked to where she will stand on the leg as normal, we're going to take a whole other series of x-rays in case we've missed something else.

Then, we're going to put Nash to sleepyville and do some "trimming" of his wound as well. We took him off of his Bute yesterday because he is feeling pretty good and starting to get a bit "hot" being confined. I let him out of the round pen yesterday afternoon to eat a bit of grass and he was wanting to race the babies along the fenceline. I'm having that massive paranoia now and seeing visions of crashing through a fence. So I stuck him on a lunge line and babysat him for about 4 hours. He just kept looking at me with that "jeez mom, i just want to burn off a little energy here".

I am typically a pretty un-nervy kind of person but I've never felt so compelled to put every animal I have in a padded room at this point. LOL! It is amazing how they can get into trouble in the blink of an eye.

And, although we don't have any proof, we think we know who is responsible for the shooting. The great thing is that our wonderful neighbors all know about it and our place is being watched like a hawk. So the poachers will have to seek elsewhere to do their dirty work.

Sometimes God does work in mysterious ways. I am lucky that it didn't hit the spine...6 inches. What's more amazing is that Dr. Meir said that it was only about an inch from the major nerve that would have been his death sentence as well. That was the first thing he did when he got there Friday was have me walk him a few steps. He said that if that hoof would have curled under we wouldn't have gone any further. Its hard to say when it just seems like I'm being way-layed with injury right now, but we really are lucky. Both of them are still here with us. Its moments like this that strengthen us and perhaps this was just another learning opportunity for me.

I have all of you who have been so helpful in your suggestions and treatment options. (Its pretty funny...none of the five equine vets agree on the same treatment...lol...so its always interesting to find out what we're going to do next based on who it is that is on call that day.)
ie: Dr Meir put Nash on a tri-sulpha powder antibiotic that he likes to use which of course, is not Dr Ben's option which is SMZ tablets crushed up, which Dr Meir says that Dr Ben does that just because he wants to make people work at it...lol! Dr Chris wants to try some DMSO on Blossom but Dr Ben thinks that we need to do more blood work on her to see what may be an underlying problem, but Dr Amber thinks that the nerve block will tell us a better idea of where the symptom may be hiding. I'm now having to keep notes on who wants to do what based on who's coming out or else I'm going to be confused. LOL!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 953
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought I'd post these pics up. This is my granddaughter (3rd generation of horse lover, they need to make a human vaccination for this), Marissa, who's first ride ever was on Nash and she has a special affinity for this gentle guy.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/Hurt%20Horses/NashMarissa1.j pg

This next pic is her again and right after I took it, she turned to me and with her cute little three-year-old wisdom said, "Grammy, Nash needs a Band-Aid"

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/Hurt%20Horses/HorsePictures0 69.jpg

Out of the mouths of babes
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1070
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hang in there Bobby. I find that with horses there is always something to learn, and I would definately take notes as to what each vet says so you can keep it all straight and keep them straight too! When my vet came out to give Jetta her second set of shots (he always says what he is giving as he is giving it), he says this is for strangles. I said to him, I don't remember you giving her strangles the last time, and he said yes he did. I had my doubts, so when he left I checked my receipt from the last visit, and sure enough there was no notes on giving the strangles vaccne like he said he did. FYI, those SMZ tables dissove in water like magic. I had to give Jetta those in July when she was sick. I put the tablets in a small bowl with a little water for a couple of minutes and they got all puffed up. Then I added a couple of spoonfuls of applesauce to it and then put in a big syringe. It worked great. How did your vet diagnose Blossom with the ulcer? The most important thing you can do for her until you can start treating her for it, is to keep hay in front of her so she doesn't get an empty stomach. A really great medicine for healing up nasty wounds is http://www.schreiners.com/FARM_SITE/Farm_home.htm Your Ganddaughter is so precious. At least Nash's wound should be able to drain well. I hope the nerve block sheds some light on why Blossom doesn't what to bear weight on her leg again. Keep us posted.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 820
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, thanks for the update. Jeeeeezzzzzzzzz! But you are keeping your sense of humor about it all. Takes a strong person to do that. I'm glad to hear Nash is wanting to run about!
 

Sherri Baker
Neonate
Username: Sherrib

Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 01:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My god that must have been a brutal day I cannot believe or even begin to fathom how you must have felt. Seeing the picture of Nash after hearing about Blossom was just incredibly horrible.. You and your horse family will be in everyones prayers I think for a long time. Nash will be a miracle horse and his scar will be an emblem of his strength.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 955
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 09:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nerve blocks were not successful yesterday. No matter how many of them we did on her, she still would not stand correctly and we could not get her much pain relief. The bad news, we now have laminitis and it is progressing very rapidly. The whole purpose to getting her out of a stall or confined area was to hopefully prevent this from happening. In fact, the whole sole of her two front feet are like sponges and after my vet said a few choice profanities (of which I echoed), he stated that he's afraid to even push on the sole or pressure check the hoof for fear of collapse and the bone coming through. We took some more x-rays in the field last night. He's to call me this morning. Not to be pessimistic, but I think we all know what's coming. You can now tell by the way she stands that the whole leg bone has shifted and what we are left with is ultimately going to be a painful conclusion of the toe coming through the hoof. The hoof wall has already started separating on the inside of the bad leg.

To further complicate matters, I messed up by putting Moose back with her. She started lactating again and he is nursing again. So, I will get to add that to my list of "darn its" and put this poor foal through his second weaning trauma.

Nash is hanging in there. I need to re-open a couple of areas on his wounds as they trying to seal up and he's getting some soreness in the area between the entrance and exit wounds. I'm sure that its from fluid buildup but want to make sure we keep it draining. A little Ace paste is my best friend right now as he's getting a bit irritable with being messed with. But vet says good progress and its healing appropriately. They are funny creatures in that when they're really hurting and don't feel good, they are much more tolerable of you doing stuff to them. But let them start to feel better and get a little hot from being penned up and they're like children throwing temper tantrums about taking their medicine.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1471
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 10:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi I pray that God holds you and yours through this. course ground blk pepper works awsome on punture wounds it also helps imensily with proud flesh. i know it sounds weird but it does work ive used it many a time on MAJOR wounds that healed very nicely I learned it from an old timer. even if you dont use it could you ask your vet about it and post what he says? Id apreciate it.
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1955
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi~Hanging here and praying for you and your family and Sweet Blossom...May you have the strength to endure what you must. HUGS HUGS HUGS
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1078
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, I will pray for a mircle for Blossom. Did your vet say why he thought this was happening? It just doesn't make any sense. I totally understand what you said about them being tolorant of us when they are in alot of pain. My mare was that way when the shoer did that butcher trim on her. Before it happened my mare, "was a total pain in the you know what" to worm. Well needless to say I have to give her bute paste twice a day for a month. She was in so much pain, she just stood there like a good little girl. I can worm her now no problem, (knock on wood). Did you check out that Schreiners website? I works really well! This is just a silly thought, but do you think duct taping a diaper around Blossoms hoof would give her some relief? Glad to hear Nash's wound is healing up good. Try to think happy thoughts!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 957
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

charlene: Its just so bizarre...all of it. They're still saying that the little stress fracture wouldn't be "that big of deal" to heal up with just support and lots of rest. They don't think that "A" has anything to do with "B" but no one is really sure. They were questioning me yesterday about any possibility that she could have foundered at some time. I have known this mare since birth and there is no episode that I can recall where that would be an even remote possibility. Even during the two years at the track, I know who trained her for the two years and they don't have access to anything to "founder" on and they would have been honest and told me. And that wouldn't make much sense to me because we're talking that was three years ago. Could the fact that when she had mastitis and ran a fever that it developed heat in her body so bad that it jump started the laminitis?? I don't know. They don't think so but who knows. Is it that she was lame for long enough that it now is presenting itself as a secondary issue? Don't know that either. Laminitis is just a real mystery yet. Some people believe it has do with one's immune system (as I believe it is somewhat of an automimmune response). Could it be that she's just borderline on immunity herself and having a foal has put her over the edge? I've asked myself a ba-zillion questions about it and I'm not getting much in the way of answers.

Dr Chris called me back today and was quite shocked that the x-rays show the bones all in the right place. He said they didn't get a great shot of the cannon bone (it was fuzzy) but the other three views looked great. They're not giving up on her yet but we are walking the fine line at this point. We've been keeping her in a hoof wrap (with a gel packing), quilts & track bandage, and a knee support in order to get her to walk more on it. To relieve both the stress of the other three legs and to attempt to get her to use the bad leg to "work out the stiffness". The issue we have with her is if we pen her up or stall her, she will get more stiff legged and discouraged to walk on it, by leaving her out, I worry that we are giving her too much opportunity to screw it up. Its like she oscillates between progress and then regression, progress and then regression.

Its the weirdest thing. I wish I could describe it all to you better. The way she places that hoof is like she's on her toe only and turned in. Its strange and doesn't make sense with x-rays. The pliability of the soles of her feet are just plum scary. You like push on it with your finger and it gives to the point that you're afraid your finger is going to go right through.

We're giving her good drugs to try to ease any discomfort she is feeling so that she will attempt to walk on it somewhat and so that she continues to eat and drink well. She'll stand there and she'll stretch that front leg all the way out in front of her for comfort sake and rest it on the toe so that it looks curled from the ankle. Doesn't make sense considering the initial injury appears to be in the knee joint.

And by the way...hahahaha...the diaper idea. I've done it before when I had a mare a long time ago get an injury to the back of her foot. It works great so definately not a silly idea!
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1483
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 08:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi I have done a lot of research into hydrotherapy and I really think it would help Blossom. I dont know what you have access to but even if you can take her to water if you had one of those blow up swimming pools you could stand her in and run cold water cold salt water is best over her. or even better yet get some kind of ariator or jacuzzi set up in it.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1190
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 08:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, a crown royal bag full of epsom salts on that foot would be very beneficial too.
 

Holly
Breeding Stock
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 739
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dag it! I just caught up again, Bobbi, I am sorry blossom is still with this. Sorry Your dealing with that and now a gun shot! I am so peeved about that!
I am also a Hunter Family and that makes me so sad and angry that someone would be so irresponsible! I hope he will heal up fine.
Prayers for you and your horses.
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1083
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi that is good that the x-rays at least confirmed that everything is where it should be. Is the stress fracture in her knee? I can see why they asked you about her foundering in the past, because that is what it sounds like she is doing know. They way you described her sole is absolutley freaky. It sounds like her sole is like a sponge. When you push on her sole with your finger did it leave an indent? A horses hoof is supposed to be hard not mushy the way you described it. I've never heard of that happening before. Did your vet say what might have caused her soles to be like that? I think you ought to duct tape a diaper (extra absorbant) to all four hooves. The extra padding wouldn't hurt right! When you first noticed that something was wrong with her, did you feel any heat in that hoof? My mare was walking like you described when she was trimed really short back in June. She didn't want to put any weight on her frog and heel area. Too bad you guys can't stick her in a sling like they do at the track. I'll talk to you tomorrow. I'll say a prayer for Blossom and Nash again tonight before I go to bed.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 959
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for all the great ideas.

Diana: Actually, hahaha, you're thinking is the same as ours. The hoof is being packed with epsom salt gel (a Farnam product this is just marvelous) and then padded and then vet wrapped. We are wrapping the lower leg in cool blue gel to do nothing, basically, then give her some comfort and attempt to keep any heat from settling in the leg from lack of use. We take it off of her during the afternoon and then open her up to the pond area where she does enjoy standing in the water, then we wrap it all up again.

I wish we had the hydrotherapy option but with just starting to build our house, the electric isn't scheduled to be run in until mid-november. We're running on generators when we need electric so maybe I can put my creative thinking cap on and figure out some "home-made" jacuzzi tub. Jenni is stirring the ole nuerons up and making me think! Thanks!


charlene: You are correct in your picture of the hoof. It is like a sponge but it doesn't leave like a finger indent, you can apply a little pressure to it and you see the whole entire sole give...its really, really creepy! My vet says he's never seen anything like it before. Evidently its not unusualy to have a "soft spot" where an old abcess or a forming abcess can be found but the whole sole of the two front feet to have this is just out-of-the-norm for sure!

When she first started this, it was right after the mastitis issue. She just started with a little lameness. There was never any heat in any area of the leg or hoof. Not then and not even now. The lameness got progressively worse day by day, no matter what we did for her. We thought in the first week that it was perhaps a stone bruise or an abcess developing. We weren't really concerned as she has the tendency to get abcesses. We thought that the antiobiotic treatment for the mastitis had probably suppressed the abcess and it was just kind of stuck there and that it would surely go ahead and develop when she was taken off the antibiotics. But nothing. Then she started running a fever and went off her food and water. That's when the crap hit the fan so to speak. That's when we all got aggressive at trying to figure all this out. That's when the first series of x-rays were taken and the stress fracture was found in the knee area. The issue is that they weren't even sure it was a stress fracture which is where all the consulting from the universities came in. (I guess that's where their concern that this fracture isn't that big of a deal as it is minimal enough that my regular vets weren't even sure there was one). It was the fever and the stopping the eating and drinking that was a major concern to them as they state that a stress fracture would not cause these other symptoms. The vets have felt for awhile now that we are dealing with a multitude of issues rather than just one. And as Dr Chris says, "It would sure be alot easier if Blossom could talk to us because she's not being real obvious here with what the hell is going on." When I talked with him last night, he says we're going to have to start doing some "witch doctor" methods of treating this. In other words, stabbing in the dark at different scenarios to see if we can find something that will work for her.

The frustration level was pretty bad when we were doing the nerve blocks. I can't tell you how many times she was stuck in the leg from the ankle down with I think a whole bottle of lidocane before we threw up our hands but we could not get her numb enough to stand sound. Its a method we had hoped would lend us a better clue as to where the pain was at. If you can block the nerve in the area of pain, she should stand sound and then you know where to start looking in more depth. Of course, no such luck for us.

We did have her in a sling several times throughout our last two week adventure. The problem with a sling is that if laminitis is starting to set in, slinging them won't do much good either. They'd rather see her walking than immobile at this point. What's more frustrating is that pressure checks of the hoof or pain reaction tests on the leg don't stay the same. She will react to a stimulus and then when you check it again in 30 seconds, she doesn't react at all. So she's not being reliable in her reactions which just complicates it all the more. We even x-rayed the hoof...no signs of any abnormalities there either.

I feel quite inadequate because I feel helpless at this point. Don't know what's going on with her, don't know how to treat her. The only comfort in that is five equine vets don't either. So, we're all holding hands and singing Kum By Yah together and brainstorming.

So...keep your ideas coming guys. We're up to trying anything at this point.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Asia born 7-11-08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1839
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope the xrays come back with better news. I don't know how you're keeping up with your tremendous strengh, but you sure are doing a great job caring for your horses. I pray Blossom will come through this alright.

I'm glad to hear the gelding is healing as well as he is.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1513
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok here is a shot at ariation without electric lived on generators most of my life. the exhaust off anything with an engine run a hose from the exhaust into the water see if that gives you enough ariation. Also for hydratherapy to be effective except with swimming (can you swim her it'd put circulation in the leg helping the laminitus)it needs to be cold cold ice water just about and moving.
http://www.equinehydrotherapy.co.uk/casestudies.htm
http://www.equinehydrotherapy.co.uk/therapy.htm
I think if you check out these links and search the site your brain will get to working on a home made equine spa.
Has anyone looked at her bach or into her shoulder for the problem is it possible she has tweeked something much higher than the knee that is applying pressure to a nerve or something Ive seen back problems cause lameness before.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 963
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenni: We pretty much looked into the shoulder and back area early on. We did a bunch of extensions of the leg and manipulations that would have given them a clue. I gave her a "10" on the gymnastic scale after they were through with her. LOL! We re-checked her back and shoulder area again two days ago and they just don't feel like that is the area we are looking for.

Thanks for the links...I've got a weekend coming up for the brain to churn out some idea here!

Oh, and by the way, we did check out the circulation on the leg when we were doing the nerve blocks...she's getting great blood flow to the hoof so that is at least a plus.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1514
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thats odd that her laminitus is that bad but shes still getting blood flow. Im glad shes still athletic anyhow.
Epson salt is what id use to make my water salt water if you get her a spa going. She will be spoiled all the horses will be jealous. lol
 

Linda Bauer --Rebel due 4/3/09
Breeding Stock
Username: Llazyt

Post Number: 148
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hydrotherapy looks like amazeing stuff!
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1521
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

6 minutes in a pool is equivelent to 20 minutes hot lapping for a horse. the only draw back is that it doesnt strengthen the bone as well as hot laping but its not nearly as hard on joints either.
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1086
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Bobbi, You mentioned that you are starting to build a house. How long have you lived at your place that you are in now? Your probally gonna think I am crazy, but is it at all possible that Blossom could have gotten into something poisonous either from the ground through her hooves or by eating something? Just a crazy thought! What is their source of drinking water?
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 964
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

charlene: Not a crazy idea at all. LOL (although I'm beginning to think there is a conspiracy among my horses to drive me crazy)! We actually live in Hillsboro, MO which is about 45 minutes from our farm. We have a small cabin that we built down there (a/k/a the future chicken house) two years ago so when we are down for the weekend, that's where we stay. Our barn is up and framed in but not finished yet. Our basement is poured and we are getting our beams and framing delivered within the next two weeks so I'm guessing that it will be 6-7 months before we are at a point to move in and sell our home in Hillsboro. But, to actually answer your question, the horses were moved to the farm two years ago. So, its always a possibility that she got into something but it would be a bit odd that she would considering this is "home stomping grounds" for her as of the last few years. Each divided field has its own pond. One of our ponds came with the land when we bought it. We had it tested and it is fine; has quite a viable fish population in it so wouldn't think that would be an issue. The other three ponds, we put in. We've had all the ponds water tested and the soil tested by the University Extension center (not because of this situation but more for pasture management purposes so that we would know what fertilizers, etc that we needed to use where and that all ponds would be viable for fish stocking). Dr Chris and I went through that laundry list the other day when I was assuring him that I couldn't think of one incident in which a grain or grass founder would have been an issue. Of course, with the type of water system available, I sure wouldn't be able to gauge a water founder.

Now, interestingly enough, he referred me to speak with a veterinarian who is in Pacific, MO; not far from me at all, who is head of the Animal Health Foundation Cure for Laminitis.

http://www.animalhealthfoundation.com/laminitis.html

This is a great resouce for the disease. Anyway, they answered some of my questions for me yesterday over the phone. And, considering the fact that Blossom ran quite a high fever for several days with the mastitis, it is quite possible that this is what could have caused this reaction. But, again, there is quite a laundry list of things that can attribute to laminitis; including hormonal issues that may have been lying under the surface that we are/were not aware of.

For anyone that is interested in understanding more about the disease and the research currently being done, this website is wonderful! It certainly has helped me better understand more of what we may be dealing with.

And interestingly enough Jenni...I, like you, thought that laminitis was thought to have been caused by lack of blood flow to the area. And actually, in the early stages of laminitis, it is the blood flow that is delivering the enzyme to the hoof that creates the problem and the idea is to try and reduce the blood flow by icing the legs. I would have never thought that.

This, for all that is, has definately been a learning experience for me. We are currently allowing her to motivate around on her own based on her own judgement. We have her on Bute every other day per AHF recommendation that she not be "over medicated" into thinking she feels better. That its better for her to self determine what exercise she can do based on how she "really" feels not what she thinks she feels due to being pain medicated.

I have come to the conclusion that I have no idea what I'm doing but willing to take everyone's collective advice, see what happens, hope for the best and at least, fight the good fight.
 

Holly
Breeding Stock
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 831
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 10:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi. I am so sorry. I am clueless.I just wanted you to know I am sorry.Hugs.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 967
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awww Holly...its ok. She's still up and fighting. And as long as everyone else involved in her treatment wants to keep going with her and thinks we may have a chance, I'm good for another round. Thanks for the hug (I have my days when I really need it)!

I have my days when I question if I'm doing the right thing. She'll have a bad day and my hubby will say, don't let her get to a point that she's suffering (which I wouldn't ever do) and then she'll have a couple of good days and then hope jumps back into the picture. Its quite a teeter-totter situation that exhausts the heart and the mind of any horse person.

I'm just so happy and excited for you and that new baby! I just love mules...and to see that cute little mini mule is just the highlight of my day! There's so much joy to be shared!
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 822
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, I don't believe it! Now Blossom has laminitis? This is new, right? I'm having to be brief here as I don;t have the time I need to read the posts well. I have to get my dog to the vet for the routine stuff. Have had a very busy and exhausting week. Nothing serious. My horse has staph inf. on face and it's being treated.

Anyway, I wanted to at least "check in." I'm sending more well wishes and adding hugs. You must be exhausted.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1564
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi that good to know about laminitis.
Try giving her a pkg of jello over her grain a friend of mine has a horse that might possibly have an ulcer but there isnt a vet around here competent enough to diagnois it. One vet said he had sand colic but didnt treat. but when she soaked a stool sample she didnt find any sand. She gave him the jello and no matter whats wrong with him hes eating again and feeling better.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 970
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 04:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenni: She's eating fine now and the ulcer has calmed itself down. Food is at least for now, not an issue. But thanks for the tip, I appreciate it. (Another tidbit to file away in my brain to pull on later down the road. LOL!)
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1087
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, that's interesting what you said about the laminitis info. I'll have to check out that website when I get a chance. I don't remember if you said, but did they do blood tests when she first went lame? Just curious! By the way, those antibotics she was on for the mastis could have given her that ulcer. When Jetta was on those SMZ's my vet also had me give her Gastroguard at the same time to prevent an ulcer. Is is possible that what is going on could be due to some weird reaction she could have had to the SMZ's? Just another thought to throw in there and kept your brain occipied.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 828
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 02:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenni, you have so many interesting ideas. What flavor of jello would you recommend? And do you pour it on in its dry form?

Anyone know what might cause hives in horses? Is there any home remedy?
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 974
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

charlene: No, we didn't do blood tests on her at the beginning. We just thought it was a stone bruise at the time. Its so hard to know when to react, don't want to over-react to some simple thing, but then you question yourself down the road when its not so simple. Actually, LOL, it was the Bute that was aggravating her ulcer. I guess anything on an ulcer will aggravate it though. I think just the stress of weaning Moose was probably enough to have aggravated it. While baby did great w/o mom, mom was a jumbled mass of nerves that first two weeks.

Weekend update: Blossom actually had a couple of good days. She was running and frolicking in her field on Saturday. Lameness was at a minimum. By Sunday night, we were back to being lame again. Blossom's breeder (a good friend of mine in the TB business) came out Sunday to see her. I like Jeannie a great deal but her bluntness can take your breath away. She made the comment to me that although her lamanitis may be stable right now, it'll come back and its going to end up getting her...you know that Bobbi. And, she's probably quite correct in that statement but sometimes when you're fighting the good fight, you just aren't ready to hear things like that. She's eating well and actually looking soooo much better and she's feeling better. So, for now, we're still saying she's holding her own. Who knows, maybe it will continue to progress in the right decision. I have no doubt that this is an issue that can and probably will pop back up in the future, whether that be a day from now or a year from now. In the meantime, we're just going to continue to do and try different techniques.

My dear Nash is fairing well. He is feeling so much better and my new friend, Ace the sleepy drug, have convinced him that it is still necessary to have his wound cleaning. He got me back yesterday though because he kept swishing his tail like a bull whip when I was back there doing the nasty "gunk" scrub and before we were done, he had managed to flick all sorts of nasties in my hair, on my face, and generally all over me...it was pretty gross. I'm sure he was laughing in his drug induced state!

Our neighbors down the road a bit had a tragic event Saturday night. Their farm sits on a major highway and someone (hmmmm...perhaps our poaching buddies) went into their field and left a gate open! Her gorgeous black QH mare was hit on the highway Saturday night and killed. My husband went up with his heavy equipment and we helped her bury her beloved horse. As a farm community, all of us have pulled together to keep a "farm watch" going. We've all had to resort back to chaining and padlocking our gates (haven't had to do that for several years) and we all have keys to each other's gates so that if someone notices anyone's animals out, we have the ability to put them back in. Of course, poachers carry bolt cutters so I'm not sure how effective it will be but perhaps it will serve as a detriment and they'll move on to another area. I'm still amazed at the complete and total disregard people have for others property. Blows my mind.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 975
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 09:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cj: Hives is an allergic reaction to "something"...give me more information...is it perhaps from insect bites? Did you change feed lately? Ya gotta give me more...LOL! I can tell you this, Nash broke out in hives the first time we ever used Gentomycin. The second time, he had an SEVERE reaction to it. He now has on his vet chart "NEVER USE". I don't think its uncommon for them to have an allergic reaction but I would try to determine what it is they are reacting to first. My Echo mare has allergic reactions to spring tick bites every year and we give her some meds to reduce her reaction.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1585
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Id use cherry jello just poor it on in dry form
 

Marilyn Lemke - Asia born 7-11-08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1846
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goodness sakes Bobbi, it sounds like your area is getting some bad news lately. I feel so bad for your friend with the horse that got hit by the car. I hope there were no injuries to the people who hit the horse. I just don't understand what people are thinking when they let animals loose like that.

Bobbi, your animals are on my mind and prayers, I hope they continue to make good progress.

I feel badly the way you're friend told you she's going to have problems in the future. I think she thought she was giving you some information you needed to hear. But there are ways to put things that are easier to hear. Some people are better at it than others, obviously. I'm sure she meant well.

When Dora delivered Asia and had to be put down, at that point I didn't know it was fatal. My friend (a vet tech) was very blunt and said "you know she's going to die, don't you?" Gosh, if that didn't get my emotions in an uproar! She appologized later on, she said she didn't mean to be so blunt. I'm sure she'll be more careful in the future with others, at least I hope so.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 977
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marilyn: I think you are so right. Our blunt friends mean no harm, I think they are in their own way trying to help brace us for the bad news we face. Dr Ben (whom under normal circumstances can be a great vet) did it to me two weeks ago...he was like, if she's not eating, drinking, walking, she needs to be destroyed. I know my mouth just fell open and I felt like jumping across the counter and slapping him...LOL. It was such a non-chalant off the cuff kind of remark for a vet to make I thought. When I talked to Dr Chris & Dr Amber the next morning, they were like...no, I don't think we need to give up just quite yet.

You, as well as several others here, know the difficulty in making those decisions. In our guts, we already know what the prognosis or truths are, I always just give hugs...hahaha...you can't screw up too bad with that method. And, as always, you and Asia are in my thoughts and prayers also. You have done such a remarkeable job with her! I'm impressed with your commitment level!
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1253
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a paramedic (ex) I can comment on this subject....there are so many nice, and polite ways to avoid using the word "death"....but, in actuality, people don't understand (or don't want to) if you use them. I found that on the scene, many were confused if you used terms like "we lost him" or "he's gone" "moved on" .....or whatever. It's not to be hurtful, that medical people are blunt....it's the way they were taught or have learned over time, that most people respond better to the very strait forward approach. They are less confused (as there is a lot of confusion going on if you're in a situation that requires you tell loved ones about a death), and more apt to be able to mentally process and handle it. They don't have to try and figure out what you mean....and if it's fatal....if you're very strait forward. That's just my little input. Keep in mind, that from the other side of things.....as medics, we want to sugar coat it, it's not easy telling someone their loved one died, or is about to (particularly at our hands)....
 

Tahra Sky 3/14
Breeding Stock
Username: Tahra

Post Number: 202
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi I am glad that things are holding at your place. I wanted to pass along something we do for a horse that has laminitis. My shoer puts a pad on him and then fills the inside with a soft silicone support. It keeps moisture out and cushions his foot. We can’t compete the horse heavily but He does keep is little girl happy with his 2ft jumps and going up in the easy hills. The vet told her parents he would never be sound or ridden again. We did this shooing only to give him some support and were very surprise when it actually helped him. He has been like this for two years and every 6months we do x-rays and have no change up to this point.

I also talked to a neighbor who had some poaching on his place a few years ago. He put a chain and padlocks on his gate and put it on the inside so the person would then have to reach inside to get to it. He then attached a wire to it and ran it underground to a high voltage fence charger. I don't know what kind it was but when they guy showed up at the ER with a burn on his hand they had there culprit. Never had a problem again.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 979
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 02:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tahra: She's in a gel fitting with foam support now. Its all going to depend on how much hoof wall seperation we end up with before we think about some type of permanent shoe attachment. I think we're probably looking at something quite similar to what you are describing. We just have to see if we've managed to hit a remissive point yet or not.

I LIKE your idea of the hot wire attached to the chains. HEHEHEHEHE! My husband and I have some serious doubts that the "poachers" will be returning to our place anytime soon. I'm sure that once they figured out in their drunken, slap shooting state that they hit a horse and not a deer...I think avoiding our place is probably first and foremost on their agenda of poachable properties. My husband is pretty much a redneck and believes in shoot first, ask questions later. LOL!

But, I have been pondering a potentially serious issue regarding the whole mess I've now created...LOL.

Although dear Blossom is actually gaining weight and looking much better, the fact that she started lactating and feeding the GiMooseraffe again presents quite a dilemma for me. (I can't believe after 4.5 weeks of weaning, that she was able to start lactating again...criminy). So, if I wean Moose off again, I run the risk of mastitis and fever again which amplifies the laminitis issue and stress issue. If I leave him on for a bit, it doesn't help Blossom get back to a healthy body condition...what to do, what to do. Guess I shouldn't have let that ole motherly instinct kick in and gave him back to her for company.

Moose, the cute little dull-witted (but perhaps not) goober, sticks to his mother's side like glue. I think he has it figured out that if mom should happen to pass through a gate and he would be a bit delayed, that the gate will close him off from her. LOL! He has always been a pretty independent fellow until I put them back together. Now he sticks to her side like a newborn. I don't think he's falling for that seperation "trick" again. LOL!
 

Linda Bauer --Rebel due 4/3/09
Breeding Stock
Username: Llazyt

Post Number: 151
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, I have a good one for ya. I weaned Bailey right at 2 months ago. I turned my horses out on my hay field for the winter on Sat. Figured after 2 months all would be safe with mare and foal. I turned Bailey out and Rita ( no bag left to speak of ) just started pouring the milk out when she walked. Go figure. I haven’t seen him suck, but I bet he is. Can ya believe it?
Oh yea, I still sending good thoughts that things keep chugging along for the better

(Message edited by llazyt on October 20, 2008)
 

Tahra Sky 3/14
Breeding Stock
Username: Tahra

Post Number: 203
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi i have used that gell for other things and It works well. I was just telling you something for in the future so you know there is help.

How about if you seperated them but milked your mare a little every day. You wont be pulling as much off as baby would but you would avoid the mastites, at least tell you get everything else worked out. I don't think small amounts would pull as much weight of. Just a thought
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 981
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tahra: What do you think about this idea...I thought about putting her in the round pen. Its a bit difficult and awkward for the Moose to get his big long TB of a Moose head in there to get to her. At least if he got some, it would prove to be a huge effort to him and perhaps deter him a bit? I'm afraid that even if I were to milk her two times a day, she will still act all stressed out and run the fenceline like she did the first week I weaned him the first time. I'm just worried that the stress alone will bite me in the butt. I like your idea...just trying to revise it a bit so that they can at least nose each other through something and perhaps keep her a little more settled.
 

Tahra Sky 3/14
Breeding Stock
Username: Tahra

Post Number: 204
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that would work well. If you notice that her bag is getting a little full you could milk her and still keep him next to her. I would probely do something like that myself. Does she get turnout time or are you still keeping her confined? If she is going out that may be a good time for him to get a good nursing and help releve her. As long as she is not loosing weight the longer time on her shouldent have lasting afects to both of them. I had a cliet a few years ago have me wean her colt for her. She brought him over and only then did I learn that he was almost a year old. We didn't have any helth or mental problems with eather of them.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 985
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She's on constant turnout at this time. They want her walking as much as possible and not standing in a confined area. I think I'll give it a shot this weekend. At least then I will be available 24 hours to counteract any signs of mastitis or other udder issues. It was pretty funny when I asked my vet, "OMG, she's been weaned from him for 6 weeks and udder was completely down for her to do this re-lactating thing! How long is it before it really is safe to turn everyone back out together?" He just smiled and said, "With some...a really, really, long time."

I just love concise answers! LOL!
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 538
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Bobbi.Iam so glad blossom is still with us!I think that if moose is some place close to blossom so that if she needs her bags nursed on she can just go to the fence and let him nurse,This is the way i have started dice and chenoa.If it was up to chenoa he would be nurseing WAY more than dice is letting him by being able to go up to the fence when she wants to.They both have a large enough area to run around in but not be together,so fare it has worked out great,soon i will put chenoa in a smaller pen close to his mom but not able to put his head threw the fence to nure.
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1088
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Bobbi, mabey you could put some tobasco on her teats haha! As far as the laminitis thing goes, I have been dealing with the same thing with Baby since June when my ex-shoer trimmed her way to short! After a few weeks of bute and her wearing some boa boots, my new shoer put special pads on like the ones Tahra was talking about. Baby has had crappy feet for several years. Whenever she doesn't have shoes on she breaks of chunks off her outer walls. My new shoer was barely able to get those pads on, and when he came back six weeks later they were about to fall off. He wasn't able to put them back on, and therefore she is lame and sore again. I bought some B-L Solution to try. I also ordered a bag of omega horseshine to try. I hopeing between the two, Baby will be feeling better soon. She has finally gained a little weight, but still has a ways to go. If I were you I would get Moose back off of Blossom soon for her own good. When you do, won't it help if you walk her, and then cold hose her udder everyday for a week? I don't know how much weight Blossom lost, but Baby lost about 100lbs. She was always a easy keeper, but I guess I didn't feed her enough to compensate for the little piggy, Jetta. It has been really hard to get the weight back on, and with winter coming, I've been more than a little worried about it. I have high hopes for the Omega Horseshine though. Mabey you could try the B-L with Blossom too. A friend of mine gives it to her QH gelding with navicalar, and she swears by it.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1601
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 12:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Baby for feet like what you descibe I use a product called pine tar its inexpensive but works wonders. I put it on the hair line and down the hoof.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 988
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

charlene: Oh, I'm with you on this. Blossom has lost more than 100 pounds...she got pretty far down in her fever state and was quite pitiful. She's gained some of it back but she is, in my opinion, got quite a ways to go. These TB's look like crap anyway due to their body style, it doesn't take much to make them look like 20 year-old mares. We had done the walking/cold water thing for her before and still got the mastitis but we're at a point where we're gonna have to try again. Moose is just being a real pig and drawing her down (like you said, with winter coming on, she needs to be on better body condition).

My husband and I have decided that we're going to fence off the big pond area this weekend. Its about a 3 acre lot with a pond. We just stocked it with fish last weekend and we want the cows out of it before they ruin the pond. It will work out nice because we're going to stick Blossom in there by herself. Grass won't last long for her at this time of the year, but that way we can hay her up good and boost her grain intake after we get her udder down a bit. There will be a gap between her and the other horses. She'll be able to see them but won't be able to get close enough to them. I'm going to round pen her up on Friday, next to Moose, and we'll see if we can get some nursing deterant started and then move her over by herself (which she hates) on Sunday. We thought about putting poor injured Nash with her for company, but we need to wean off Taya in two weeks and I would really like the gelding to stay with the babies so that we don't have utter (or is that "udder") chaos for separation.

I picked up some of the B-L the other day at the store and was reading the label. That's an idea. We put her on some Omega product (can't remember the name of it now...its in a yellow box...hahaha) that is already...what's the word I'm looking for...(broke down, de-lineated, you know what I mean) so that its easier for her to uptake into her system. We're just introducing her into what my vets are calling "witch doctoring" products and trying them for a period of time. Its hard to tell what works and what doesn't in this situation for her unless we give it just a bit of time to see the results.

I can say this, she had another good day yesterday. She came galloping in from the field last night to eat. I still don't know if I need to be worried about that or excited about that. When she does that, I see visions of her hoof bone coming through her sole. The nightmares in my head block any notion of just enjoying the fact that she feels better. LOL!
 

Tahra Sky 3/14
Breeding Stock
Username: Tahra

Post Number: 205
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbie it sounds like things are on track for you. I don't know what your weather is at night but I always blanket a horse that I am putting weight on. It really helps there body use the energy without having to work at staying warm.

I have decided that this is the month for injuries. My 5yr old has 2 swollen hind legs and her left eye is infected. We are treating the eye but have no idea what is wrong with her legs. There is a little heat and a small amount of lameness. She is on Butte and in standing wraps. Also the neighbor came down to tell me that they had a Stallion in with there mares and now we have to cheek the mares for a fence breading. I hope nothing because the stallion is s***. One of my geldings has an abses that won’t brake out. Another’s Arthritis is acting really badly and the pain killers aren’t helping. Finally my Appy is on stall rest and we have no idea what is wrong with him. He is on three legs, swelling, fever, and no appetite. It is a hind leg and looks in his hip area. We is going to take him to an Equine hospital to have a hip x-ray and see what is up. Nothing major with my guys but defiantly not a fun month for some of us.
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1089
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenni, I'm currently using something similar that my farrier recommended called Venice Turpintine. It is supposed to toughen up her sole. It has helped some, but I'm hoping the B-L solution will help even more.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1602
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 01:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

are you applying it just to the sole or are you appkying it to the whole hoof?
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1090
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Bobbi! That is great about Blossom running around. If she wasn't up to it, I'm sure she would be doing it, right? Does your vet have any suggestions as to doing anything different this time around with the whole weaning thing? I've been using Venice Turpentine on Baby's hooves to toughen them up per my farrier's recomendations. It also might not hurt for you to try some on Blossoms feet, but see what your vet thinks about it first. When you wean Taya, why don't you put her mom with Blossom for company? FYI, the word you were trying to think of is "Chelated", I believe. When you get a chance to look, I would be interested in what the name was exactly, of that Omega product that you have been giving Blossom. From everything I have been reading on nutrition and all, is that when feeding Omega fatty acids it is important that the omega 3's are higher than the omega 6's. It is the omega 3's that are the most benefical. Some of the benefits include: reduced inflamation, shiny coat & healthier hooves, helps skin allergies, improves immune system, etc. Here is the wesite of the stuff I bought you should check it out. www.omegafields.com I started Baby on the B-L yesterday. I'll let you know how it works.
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1091
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 02:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenni, my farrier told me just to put it on her sole and frog.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1603
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 03:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

put the pine tar on the whole hoof including the hairline it will seal it and promote hoof growth its also a natural germicidal try it for 3 days if you dont see 1/4 inch of new growth ill be suprised.
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1093
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 04:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, I'll try it! Thanks again Jenni!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 989
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tahra: WOW! Girl! Were you just feeling a bit left out and wanted to join the "injured equine" side of life with me or what?!?! Man, watch that lameness...mine started out to be nothing more than what I thought was a possible abcess and it double-whammied me. These horses and their darned ole legs can get into quite a mess rather quickly! My thoughts and prayers are with you that you get your bunch healed up quickly! Keep me posted...we'll hold hands together in the wallers of horse hell! LOL!

I am going to put Lena in with Blossom when Taya comes around. I wanted to try to get Moose off before hand, thought it would be less stressful than trying to wean two at a time. Afraid their panic attacks will be enough to put them both through a fence.

charlene: THAT'S the Word! Thanks for being my dictionary. I think my brain is on exhausted and I find myself stumbling around for the simplest of words lately. I will let you know what the product is. I'm doling out so much differenct "stuff" meds to different animals now that I'm calling them by their package colors instead of what they are. *Giggle* Its easier for those non-medical people in my family to get me "two scoops of the red jar" than it is to say, get me two scoops of Bute. Because then, we have to put in "three scoops of the yellow/green jar"...well, you get the drift. Hahaha!

And, I believe that you are correct in the Omega factor. Believe it or not, my son has an autoimmune disorder and he was taking this same stuff. I just happened to ask the vet if it would be safe for horses (due to it being chelated) and he said, sure, so we started dumping some of that to her. Hahahaha! So I know you can pick this stuff up in your local human health food store.

And, in my case, vet has resisted wanting to put any type of "sealant" hoof product on Blossom. Only because he wants the hoof to breath and doesn't want to take a risk of sealing in heat/infection. He is being pretty staunch in his attitude of wanting to keep a clear picture going on and not supressing anything. In fact, he won't let me give her any more than 1 gram of Bute because he doesn't want the pain covered up too much. We'll see how things go. If she continues to feel good and get better rather than going backwards, I'm sure that I can start using something on her at some point.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1605
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 07:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi in your case wouldnt it be good on her sole? the pine tar doesnt create a non breathable sealent. just a thought
 

Diane Loveday
Weanling
Username: Dianeluv

Post Number: 33
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have had excellent success with Keratex for soft soles. www.keratex.net They have several products for the hoof. Also black oil sunflower seeds are a great source of Omega fatty acids.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 990
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenni: Actually in my case, no, we are already using something on her sole and wrapping it. Don't want to use anything on the outside at this point.

I guess the issue at hand isn't just a "soft sole" or hoof problems...the issue is Laminitis. I have lots of really good products for hoof care but the hoof issue with Blossom isn't just poor hoof condition. I only wish it were that easy! LOL!
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1096
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for that link Diane. Black oil sunflower seeds are high in Omega fatty acids, but they aren't the beneficial ones. They are high in the Omega 6 fatty acids which don't really have any good benefits except for just adding fat to their diet just like adding corn oil. The Omega 3 fatty acids are the good ones. The Omegafields.com website explains it better than I can. I just ordered a bag of their Omega Horseshine, I can't wait to try it.
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 1097
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 07:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi mabey you should try the Omega Horseshine. My mare is having the same problem as yours excluding the hairline fracture of course. The Omega 3's in their product is supposed to really help with inflamation. Are you going to try the B-L Solution? I don't know if you would be interested in this, but I saw an ad for a supplement in my "The Horse" magazine that came in the mail yesterday called OCD pellets. It's a bone supplement! It might help with Blossoms hairline fracture. Here is the website www.ocdpellets.com
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 832
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Lots of action here and I'm saving this on my desktop so I can take notes later on all the products mentioned!

Bobbi, I'm so glad your gelding is apparently healing, eventhough he gave you a nasty bath for your trouble. I need some of that "sleepy" medicine for my brat. LOL

These mares are amazing for their nursing ability. Dang! I hear ya Bobbi, about the separation thing. I had to put Poco back in with his mama and he won't let so much as a FLY come between him and his groceries! But I am so glad to hear Blossom is better. I think of her often.

Tahra, how are your "kids," doing? Sounds like a lot of nursing going on there. Keep us posted, okay? How is your horse about getting ointment into her eye? Mine is awful. Pulls her head way up and makes life difficult. She's a pill, but I love her.

As to the allergies of my gelding. I haven't a clue what it is. At first, I thought it was alfalfa. Took him off and it cleared up. Then out of the blue, he got a staph infection on his face and was also broke out in hives. The medication is working for the staph, but he still has hives-almost two weeks straight!

The hay is what I was giving before the alfalfa, and no problem there. It is also what he is getting now. I'm at a loss. There are flies at the stable where he is kept, but the vet didn't think that was it. I guess I will have to have him skin tested, but I am going to contact his previous owner first and find out if she has a clue as to what is going on. It has to be miserable for him and he is grumpy while being ridden. I think the hives are the problem.

So to make a long story short, I don't have much to specify. I was wondering if there are a common list of things a horse might be allergic to?
 

mariana cremonte
Breeding Stock
Username: Mariana_cremonte

Post Number: 255
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all! I have not checked the board for a while, (miss you!) it seems this was injury/sick month.
I am glad and relieved to see everyone is doing a little bit better. Bobby, I just crayed looking at Nash shot pictures, that is so awfull, as if we did not have enough with "natural" illnesses and injuries to have someone harm them!.

I want to add my part of injuries. Calfu turned a year a few days ago, and he is looking like s.. He lost weight, even do he is eating well, had -still has- scabies, and is acting quite down, also has tears form both eyes -vet thinks allergie-. I even thought that if I posted his picture you gals would have thought I was neglecting him. He also got injuried running into a wire fence, he recovered quickly from that -quicklier than my pocket from the vets bills anyway-
I just read about the ulcers, could he have those? (has the dull hair, lost weight and down mood), and what is the probiotics you mentioned?.-I will send healing waves your way, -although mine don´t seem to be very effective lately haha....-
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 995
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cj: I responded yesterday but, alas, it didn't post up.

So, in a nutshell, Blossom is galloping around like nothing ever was wrong with her! Her soles have hardened back up, the hoof wall seperation has stopped and it appears (please, please) that her laminitis is in a sort of remission. Her hoof cracked right smack down the middle of the front hoof. Shoer will be out Monday to put a special shoe on her to grow this puppy out now. She's so happy to be out of gel shoes and leg braces. She's still getting some leg treatments but we're able to wrap overnight and then take it off. She's thrilled...and certainly is back to her ole self personality-wise.

Nash, poor guy, is feeling pretty spry as well. Just looks ugly still. Its actually healed up on the inside and I'm not getting the draining like I was. I had to really scrub off dead, jerky meat (ruined everyone's appetite now) again...that's always such a thrill. But, it must be on its way to healing up because it now "itches" and he is quite content to let me rub it...feels good. Now, so long as he doesn't go and do something really stupid...like rub is butt on a fence post and impale himself, then we should be good. Just going to take time to get that sucker healed over.

I can't believe Cj that you are still dealing with hives. Unusual, to say the least. Skin testing??? Well, be prepared...your horse will never let you near him again with a needle when you get done with that!!! That's a pain! I know...I have "allergic" animals as well.

mariana: Thanks for your support! I'm equally keeping you in my thoughts for Calfu as well! When it rains, it pours! Why is that?!?! And just remember...its only money...what the heck. My husband says...I guess we spend it on them cuz our only other alternative is to eat them. Don't worry about us thinking "neglect"...we all know better. Goodness...my poor Blossom looked like some sad case from the Animal Precinct shows! It was really embarrassing. But even the best of us get horses that go downhill for one reason or another and they are less than attractive to the unknowing eye. I try really hard not to judge an issue based on sight; you may not know the whole story behind the appearance, ya know.

Ulcers??? Hmmm...does he get stressed easy? Personally, I would say that being a yearling (unless he is under heavy show schedules) shouldn't make for ulcers but you never know. Blossom is off the track so she's a dandy on the stress level. She's a cribber as a result, besides the ulcer issue. She paces when she eats...drives me insane...she'll take a bite and then walk in three circles, take a bite and then walks in circles...now that's signs of a stressy horsey! LOL!

A thought for you though...scabies is a blood mange parasite...maybe you are low on iron and B vitamins...try some Lixotinic...might be what he needs to perk up a bit and encourage some healthy blood cell development.
 

Holly
Breeding Stock
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 864
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Bobbi! So glad That the horses are doing better! Blossoms sounds like she is glad also!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 999
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Holly: Thank you! (Actually, giggle, I'm trying to stay upbeat so that the black cloud THINKS I've chased it away!) I am very thrilled with Blossom's progress. Still will always be worried though because the more I learn about laminitis, the more I find its like herpes...always and forever...just in and out of active state. But, you never know, if I can keep her healthy and sound perhaps the near future will hold a cure or potentially successful treatment.

She's come into heat recently and being the "town floozey" of the herd, she is quite bitchy about not getting to go see her boyfriend. LOL! Had to put two field between them now...she'll back her right on up to a fenceline in a nano-second and she doesn't need that added dilemma on her plate!

I'm thinking about doing some research to see if I can find a reasonable TB stallion to breed her to in early spring if all remains quite on the health front. Starting to think a bit about the possibility that maybe one more baby is all I will ever get out of her and I'd like to get a straight TB baby this time. Who know...perhaps the next Triple Crown potential.

She's just so chock full of her own personal health issues that I don't know that I want to turn her into an actively yearly bred mare. I don't know that her health can stand up to it. If she does well, perhaps she is that type of mare that should only be bred every 2-3 years so that she had plenty of recovery time.

You know, my other two mares just bounce right back to health. Blossom's another story. But, by far, she's the best riding horse on the place. Incredibly will take care of any rider you put on her and she is literally bomb proof. Those are nice to have around.
 

mariana cremonte
Breeding Stock
Username: Mariana_cremonte

Post Number: 256
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 08:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobby you are too funny!. I guess Bloosom missing her boyfriend means she is having some extra energy to spend.
Thanks for your support and the info on the scabies, what is Lixotinic? I am giving him vitamins and minerals. I thought about ulcers because I treated the scabies with frequent dosis of ivermectine, and then he had ascarids so we gave him some other dewormers -vet did-. And regarding stress, I weaned him with no fuss at all, but a few days after that the boarding place closed all off the sudden so I jumped him into a trailer for the first time and took him to a farm: he was sooo sad! although there were other horses he was never well there. Then some other people rented the old boarding place so I took him back there, but with different horses in it. And around this time is when he got all those things.
Now that I know you won´t call Animal protection, here are pictures of him
[IMG]http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb249/marianacremonte/Septiembreoctubre200804 2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb249/marianacremonte/Septiembreoctubre200802 2.jpg[/IMG]
that was me and him on his birthday, he did´nt even eat the carrots I gave him...

CJ I hope the allergy goes away and that the previous owner can help you figure it out, AND that you can avoid the needle test -had them done on myself -, what is hives? can´t get it on the transalator.I think alfalfa must be an allegenic, it gets me a rush just to touch it. I will keep him on my thoughts also.

take care everybody!
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 834
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 09:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Marianna. I got him home and was going to take him to the vet yesterday. We fixed up an old horse trailer that someone loaned to us. Cost a few hundred, but thought worth the money to have one to borrow whenever we wanted.

Well, he went into it with a little coaxing the first time, so we got him home, but yesterday he was having none of it! After 3 hours we gave up! Go figure. Guess he likes it here and didn't want to leave! LOL!

So much for our investment, but our friends will love it.

Anyway, now we have to wait until this week sometime, when vet can come here. Good news is the vet said he can take a blood test and find out what the allergy is! I will be so glad when all is done. He looks like he could be on animal cops also, with his swollen face (still has the infection) with what looks like dried mud, but is actually oozing yuk, plus his hives. I'm praying he doesn't have an ulcer too, after all this stress.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1630
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 09:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marriana hives are little red bumps that usually itch the are the allergic action.

Cjskip If you can keep the trailer for a while park it in the pasture securing it so if he steps in it doesnt tip I usualy place cinder blocks under the back. then start feeding him in it at first just place the food close to the back and everday move it up just a little bit. feeding hay leave the door open and put the hay inside eventualy hell want some of it making the trailer a good place to be.
 

mariana cremonte
Breeding Stock
Username: Mariana_cremonte

Post Number: 259
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jenni for explaining it to me.
Cj hope you can have the results for the blood test soon, and that whatever is giving him the allergies is something you can take away from his life. Please let us know.
 

Tahra Sky 3/14
Breeding Stock
Username: Tahra

Post Number: 210
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2008 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I tell you last month was the month of injuries and now we are into the unknown. Swan has some sort of hives or fungus on her face. Have been treating it and it is healing. Still don't know what it is but at least it is looking better.

Quick update on my guys. The gelding with arthritis in on his daily Butte along with MSM and doing very well. The lame gelding is sound and we still don't know what was wrong. They eye infection healed up and the best news is that my 3 mares are not pregnant. One was covered but it was still early and we pinched it off. Even better news is the neighbor felt so bad (after I gave him a piece of my mind about him being irresponsible) that he covered the Vet bills on the mares and the pinching of the one. So now if I can get Swan better I should be good for another 3 weeks!!
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1003
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mariana: Your boy doesn't look THAT bad. Hahahaha! I think you're safe from the animal cops episodes! Lixotinic is a blood builder. You can usually find it at many feed stores or horse supply places. If not, you can order it on line. Its a real strong vitamin/iron supplement. Lots of people use it daily when horses are under extreme conditions (ie: racing, showing, eventing, or illness). It may take a few times before your horse will eat it well. Its a liquid you can put on their grain but it has a strong odor to it (and probably a strong taste as well).

Wow! What's the deal with the creeping crud going around???? I wonder if it has anything to do with the wet season we had this year? My stallion is white faced and he gets what we call here "fungus face" which is really just a "dew poison malady" from the dew on the grass (fescue) that irritates the white skin from some reason. I put Corona ointment on it (its like diaper rash cream...hahahaha) and it works well to clear it up. That's why we call him S#@t-face! LOL!
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1004
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 09:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OH!!! By the way! Good news! Blossom has officially been released from veterinary care. Yippee! Farrier came out yesterday, put on her special shoes (she's so special...all the other horses are jealous...LOL). Laminitis is in remission, prognosis is "GOOD", hoof sole has hardened back up and the hoof wall should grow out. I am doing the happy dance, well, until we "wean" again...of which I have to worry about the whole mastitis again which could throw her right back into laminitis. We're going to wait until we get a really cold snap and then pull baby off again. Maybe that will help keep the fever from going up again.

Yesterday was the last day for her Bute. She can now come off of everything and just be a horse again. Whew...that was pretty tough going for quite some time. (By the way...weird, weird, weird but my farrier was blown away by the garlic smell of her feet...it was the oddest thing...must be either a reaction to the medication or to the laminitis...don't know but dear lord the vampires ought to stay away from her now. LOL!)

Nash is healing up as well. Going to have to cut some more tissue off but he is actually looking so much better as well.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1633
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 10:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi Congrats on Blossoms progress. Will she wean Moose on her own if given enough time? A friend of mine gave me some weight builder and in just a few days ive noticed a difference Maybe you could give her that and just let her do the weaning??
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1319
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenni, glad the weight builder is working out for you.....I was thinking the same thing...that she'd just wean him in her own time, she won't put up with him nursing forever!
 

mariana cremonte
Breeding Stock
Username: Mariana_cremonte

Post Number: 260
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, Bobbi thank you, I feel so good that you did not find him to be that bad haha I looked into the Lixotinic and looks similar to what I am giving him. NOT working so far, bad thing is that I am starting to get suspicious that the people from the boardig place are not feeding him what they are supoussed to, I so much wish I could have my own place!!!!
Glad Blossom is well and hope Nash heals fast. Did you learn anything else about those hunters?.
Jenni, what is the weight builder? do you give it to the mother or the foal?.
take care everybody!.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1635
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mariana here is a link to the weight builder http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2e87bf32-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204 ae5
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1636
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here is another link check out the brochure link
http://www.farnamhorse.com/product.php?pid=100094&key=300121
 

Linda Bauer --Rebel due 4/3/09
Breeding Stock
Username: Llazyt

Post Number: 157
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 08:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have used the weight builder on a couple of horses, and I have to say it worked great. I could see results in just couple weeks.
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1008
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 08:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Weight builder is great. Unfortunately, we've tried that with Blossom and it isn't doing too much. She actually is looking much better than she did. She looks incredibly pregnant though...kind of bizarre...maybe just hormonal weird stuff going on. She's picking up weight but got that prego belly look going on. Hmmmm...and I know (well...hahahaha...I think I know) that she's definately not bred.

Jenni/Diana: Really??? You think she'd wean him on her own??? Mom and son are both pretty much goobers here. Not the brightest bulbs on the tree if you know what I mean...not sure nature gave them the sense of a goose. Sorry, hehehe, its the truth but we love our "intellectually challenged" equines none-the-less.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1641
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 09:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think at this point its worth giving it a shot usually by the 8th month a mare will wean her foal completely If its not total by then she wont be producing near the milk lessening the chance of mastis.
Bobbi if weight builder isnt doing much have you tried calf manna?
Oh also once a horse gets poor or malnutritioned they tend to get that pregnant look. She didnt look that thin tho in pics i seen of her.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1322
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 09:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, yes, eventually, she'll wean him herself....
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1011
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well guys...I say lets just let her do the job then! Hahaha! Saves me the guilt and the added stress...I mean he is 7 months old now. That's interesting because I just had noticed this weekend that although you can still express milk from her, her bag is pretty shriveled up and looks like a "non-lactating" mare...maybe she's already starting. When I was out all day with the horse shoer on Monday...I never noticed Moose suckling off her. When he'd walk over to her and turn his head to get a drink, she'd just walk away. Maybe she's ahead of me in the game plan.

Jenni: I currently have her on Mare & Foal which is a feed that already has the proportional amount of Calf Manna in it. She is also mixed with Equine Senior for better uptake/digestion. She is also on the Weight Builder. It just isn't so obvious in results with her as it was with my other broodmares that bounced right back. You guys should see Echo...she is just stunning! Got her good figure back again, well, for a few months anyway! Lena is a big, fat elephant and will always be a big, fat elephant who could nurse a herd of babies and still never drop an ounce. She looks the same, year round, prego or not...

I'll take some updated pics this weekend (in the frigid cold temps coming our way). You then can see the remarkable difference to how these three mares act and react to pregnancy.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 836
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone. Goodness, lots of ills and recoveries going on. I'm glad to hear that everyone's horses are doing well, overall. I know it is hard taking care of an ill horse, especially if they don't like the treatment.

Bobbi, I hope letting Blossom wean your Gimooseraff works out. I did see a picture of some wild horses though where the mare was nursing her grown daughter, who in turn was nursing her own foal!!! LOL!!!! So I'm really interested in how it goes. At any rate, I'm delighted she is over the laminitis.

I really don't like the "nursing," horses back to health. It has to be done, but I hate it. Probably 'cause my horses are such buggers about it. I swear, someday I am going to have a horse that gives me no trouble! HaHAHaHAHAHAHAHAHaHaHa.......

Well, couldn't get my vet out in time to see Kir and the time has come for my husband and I too hit the road. So they are off to a boarding stables today. The woman, bless her heart, that owns it will call her vet and get Kir's hives checked out. Hope we get it figured out. They are better, but still there. I imagine he has to test him while they are active?

Poco will be separated from mama. I feel for them both. Mama is so protective! With my new gelding she just won't let him within a few feet of her baby. But Kir is no threat, as far as I can see. Today, he has a little bleeding where she bit him on the butt! Nothing that a little "Swat," won't heal.

Please keep some good vibes going for my three horses, as they leave my care for the next month or so. I will worry about them while I am gone, but we cannot put off our trip any longer.

We are heading to the cold country of Northern Ca. We are looking at property up there and doing a reality check, to see if we really want to live in the ice and snow again. But the Valley has such bad air-have considered leaving the state altogether. Anyway, my horses will be in someone else's hands, but ultimately, my responsibility. I'll miss them.
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1016
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 05:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cj: I will miss you! Please take care of yourself. We'll keep your horses in our thoughts and prayers. If you really want to move somewhere...come to Missouri. We have the cold for three months and the deadly humidity of summer for three months so you could have the best of both extremes you've lived in within a single year! LOL!
 

mariana cremonte
Breeding Stock
Username: Mariana_cremonte

Post Number: 262
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, November 07, 2008 - 11:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good luck on your trip Cj! I will keep your horses in my thoughts.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 838
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 01:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Mariana. I appreciate the thought.

Bobbi, thanks, but I will take my lap top along and have a Verizon wireless connection, so should have no problem accessing this site.

And I must say that humidity is not a favorite thing of mine! Spent some time in Southern Florida some years back. My Christmas cards all wilted and fell off the shelf!

By the way, I recently asked if a foal would be able to socialize with horses if they were 6 months old and have only had their mama to interact with. Well, I am pleased to say that my colt flapped his lips as soon as my new gelding came near! Was funny to see and I knew it as soon as I saw it, after having "heard" you describe it under some link or another. Very funny.
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1019
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, November 10, 2008 - 08:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cj: Hahahaha...gotta love that "I'm a baby, please don't hurt me" response...its so cute isn't it?! See, your little one did just fine with mother nature's instincts.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 839
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 11:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, guess they don't need us as much as I might think they do- HaHa! But then again...
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 145
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 01:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Geeze, lot's to catch up on. Ulcers, fractures, Laminitis, and gunshot wounds?

Sounds like things are recovering.

How's Blossom doing?
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1047
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim: She's doing well. We were prepared TWICE in this fiasco to put her down. Finally...got her into remission. But, stupid me when I put Moose back in with her that she started lactating again and nursing him. Now I'm in a pickle. Got an 8 month old foal still nursing and I'm scared to death to hard wean him off for fear that we have a mastitis issue again which will lead to flaring up the laminitis again. And as if she's not enough of a health basket case...now I can't figure out if she's prego or not. (Don't think so but she's developing a belly but not sure if its the result of that's just where her weight gain is going first before moving to the topline and the hip area...or...if she is prego after what we believed was a twin abortion...or...does she just belong on the front page of the National Enquirer with the headline of "Alien Impregnated Missouri TB" or...)

But, the good news is that either way...she's doing well. Now I just have to worry that this may present (and most likely will) a re-occurring issue for her in the future.

The gunshot victim has recovered quite nicely as well. Good thing he's not a "show horse"...the scars he got from it probably would knock him out of any competition but the cosmetic issue doesn't mean anything to me.

How's the ole leg Tim??? Did you make a full recovery?

And, if you haven't already...go to my "game" thread and tell me (from your expert TB point of view) if YOU think Blossom may be prego...

Are you and Jonathan starting to go into get ready to foal mode? I'm guessing that your foaling season may being in January?
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 146
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The leg is doing GREAT, we did some hiking this past week in Tennessee and it held up just fine and wasn't too painful as long as I stayed within my limits. It sucks getting old. Thanks for asking.

Blossom: reoccurance is always a concern with laminitis. If I read through properly, rotation or sinking wasn't an issue, so you are left with the inflammation of the sensative laminae. As long as circulation wasn't compromised, and the laminar attachment remains strong, you should be able to manage this fairly easily. It sounds as though you've got a good team assembled, good for you, that is the MOST important action you can take.

I would recommend:

X-rays at least every 6 mos. for the next year. make sure your vet and farrier review these together. It is vital in the recovery stage (up to 1 year) that sole depth is maintained, coffin bone angle is within normal range and her breakover is back far enough as to not put extra pressure on the apex(front) of the coffin bone. The only way to get an idea of what's going on inside the foot is a good lateral radiograph.

By "good lateral radiograph" I mean this:
http://www.grandcircuitinc.com/tshoe/fig4.jpg

Notice that with the use of markers on the front of the hoof wall, and on the bottom of the foot, you can clearly see the sole depth, coffin bone angle, and breakover. This particular image is of a pretty normal foot( maybe a slight negative coffin bone angle). On the recovering lamanitic horse, I would like to see the breakover lined-up with the front of the coffin bone depending on how severe she was.


Alrighty, enough about lamanitis, I'm spouting off about stuff I haven't thought about for 10 years.

Nash: Poachers are the worst sort of scumbag. With the deer and horse populations co-mingling here, it is a constant worry. Every year there is a horse shot somewhere in the area.


We are getting into foaling and breeding mode. The barren and maiden mares are up under lights at night. We'll probably move our first foaling group closer to the foaling barn in the coming weeks. We've had several mares ship out to other parts of the world, so I think our foaling number is at 137 right now. That's better than the 182 we were expecting.

(Message edited by dystocia on December 02, 2008)
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1056
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim: I LOVE whatever you can feed me with regard to laminitis. I have read and read on it and there's just never enough you can learn about it.

I like the 6 month idea. Its great! And, you are so right. I have a great bunch of vets, a great farrier that I love and trust, and some super specialists in the are of laminitis who are just so kind as to lend their advice and wisdom.

I have no doubt that this is not the last I will see of the laminitis with her. Good lands but I still have to worry (again) now that I have to re-wean off the 8 month GiMooseraffe. I'm suffering from paranoia about re-visiting the whole mastitis/laminitis thing all over again!

Sole depth is our BIG issue. That WAS the really, really scary situation we were in. I almost put her down twice during this. Her sole was like a super soaked sponge. We were all worried that it was so volital that her bones were going to come crashing through the sole at any second just from the pressure of her weight on the foot. (She was one smart horse as she stood with the leg extended out as to not hold any body pressure on it.) You can't see this photo well because I took it at dusk one evening, but you can tell on her right front leg that she would extend it out in a standing position.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/Call%20At%20Night/BlossomMoo se10.jpg

She was trimmed 2 weeks ago and my farrier was quite pleased with her progress. The sole of her feet have solidified up nicely.

The lamini ring in her hoof isn't all "seedy" and discolored like it was. The width of that line remains real inconsistant though so...who knows what progress that will or won't make.

Breakover...well now you're hitting on the target. She is by far a "small/short" TB and shouldn't genetically be as little as she is. But, being the TB, she still has that long wither to front leg structure, as well as the deep chest and high flank. The problem is that she has got the teeniest feet this side of the Mississippi. We have to special order her shoes! My farrier says its the smallest feet on this heighth of a horse that he's ever worked on. In turn, we don't have a whole lot to work with in regards to shortening the toe and getting better breakover. They are as short as they can go without "quicking" her. This doesn't fair well with the hind feet any better as she is an over reacher too. (Personally I think that's why she never liked running on the track...she used to over reach because of her anatomical makeup and just beat the heck out of her legs and bruise the soles of her front feet from the forward action of her back feet). Its so frustrating when you get her trimmed for maximum breakover and still get the "pop, pop, pop, pop" of back feet slapping the sole of the front feet at a slow, leisurely walk.

We have decided that due to her susceptibility for health issues and her high metabolism/low weight gain that we are going to breed her every other year (at least) or more ideally, ever three years. BUT...with that said...you need to visit some of the other threads I've posted on with regard to the "alien pregnated my horse" situation I may have on my hands with Blossom! I honestly don't know how she could be but I think she's in foal and been in foal for awhile now. I'm just baffled and need some of your advice and good natured bantering to figure this mare out. You'll just have to excuse her "ethiopian mare in poverty" look as what it is...a mare that has been through alot recently and is already a hard keeper without the complication of an 8 month old nursing and a possible foal in her belly.

Last year at about 5 months prego:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/MARES%202009/HorsesGroup2.jp g

This year at "who knows":
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/MARES%202009/BlossomNov2008. jpg

Whatcha think? Is she or is she not prego?

If she's not in foal...I'm going to hold off and do a full TB breeding on her. Just in case the next is my last and final foal from her. Bobbi just wants ONE full blooded TB to hobby race again before I'm too old to do it anymore.

Nash is healed up quite nicely...too bad I can't fix the stupid soul who blasted him though. I do not understand that even though he IS a buckskin...he was laying down in the field (only way we could determine he got nailed from the angle of the shot) and he certainly doesn't have any antlers and I can't believe someone was STUPID enough to actually think that this 1300 pound horse was a trophy buck! Good grief but that would be like thinking you had a site on Godzilla the giant hog!

On a lighter note...lol...I am so glad your leg is doing great! A hike? Are you serious? Thats what they call exercise! I'm too old for and serious exercise! LOL! I would have had a heart attach 1/4 mile into the hike, much less challenging my busted up leg. Ha! You're a braver soul than I!

Nice reduction in the foaling DUHH program there! Whew! Shipping my horse overseas...I can't even imagine...not in anything other than a tin can anyway. I have enough trouble getting them into a trailer! LOL!

And...just for entertainment purposes only, and because YOU named him: Here are some comparison pics of Moose

Three days old:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/Slew%20City%20Warrior/Haleys Camera2023.jpg

Not much as changed (hahaha):
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/Slew%20City%20Warrior/HorseP ictures046.jpg

Other than that between him and Taya, they're always into something they ought not to be in:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/BGOVRO_2008/Misc%20Horse%20Pics/HorsePic tures048.jpg

He's such a goober! God bless the simple minded ones!
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 147
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 11:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dunno Bobbi, she looks kinda pregnant. (If there is such a thing)

Gotta love Moose. We have shipped all of our weanlings to another farm, so I knida miss being around the younguns. Not to worry though, I'll get over THAT real soon.

Here is a good lamanitis article from a man I worked for 10 years ago. Many of the techniques we use today were pioneered by him and a gentleman named Fran Jurga, who maintains a good web resource as well.

http://www.nanric.com/classify_lamdamage.asp
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1058
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim: Hahahahaha! Kinda pregnant is synonymous with being "kinda dead" isn't it???? Diana and I have been debating back and forth for a week now on if she is or if its just the pot belly effect of trying to put weight back on. Its a real tough call because she is in less than ideal body fat condition. I think we've solved my dilemma with the Moose though...going to move the round pen over and put him and JJ in there for awhile to get him weaned off. I'm hoping the cooler, winter weather will stave off mastitis. Sometime in the next 30 days we'll get her US and see. Perhaps when we pull off the Moose we can see some weight gain and it will be easier for me to see if its a prego or a pot belly.

Thank you so much for the link. We had a long discussion with regards to laminitis. We can to the deduction that it was a "fever induced laminitis as a result of the mastitis" situation for Blossom. But...with that said, and with her history of metabolic & endocrine issues, its quite possible that she may suffer from some immunity/autoimmunity issues as well, which of course, could lead her to be extremely prone to laminitis as well.
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1059
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"This particular case also experienced a chronic toe crack, as well as a few migrating abscesses, when he was young. He has paper-thin walls that have been backed up into the white zone at the toe. This horse has a flat tire on a good day. Give him a little dose of laminitis and you have a total disaster."

Wow...this is pretty close to what I have to deal with on Blossom. However, I guess the good note is that at least she isn't "backed up into the white zone at the toe"...I at least have toe on her although it isn't much of one. My farrier does a good job (ummmm...I think...since I'm not a farrier) with measuring her angles and trying to maximize her breakover. He's never been "happy" with her sole depth. The negative side of this coin, however much continuing education that Wayne does to perfect his skill as an "Equine Podiatrist" (hehehe...whenever he calls the night before his appointments, he always says, This is your friendly equine podiatrist), he doesn't have the opportunity to work on too many TB's; not too prominant of a breed in my neck of the woods. So although he is knowledgeable in that area, he doesn't work on enough of them to probably keep himself visually hard practiced with them. Blossom also has had years and years of abcess issues. She gets them it seems at the drop of a hat. She is the only one that we keep shoes on all the time (other than deep winter) just so that she is more protected from bruising or abcessing. What I find interesting is that as her hoof is growing out from this event, you can definately see that trauma occurred in the hoof wall. She has a definate "ridge" in the outer hoof wall about 1 to 1-1/2 inches below the coronary band. It encompasses the entire hoof wall on both front feet. The other notation with that is on the right front hoof, she has a "hole" dead center in this ridge. Looks as if she abcessed and "blew out" in that area but I can tell you that she never did abcess, drain, show sensitivity or any other indication with regard to the location. Its like it tried to seperate there (?)...not sure what it is. Its growing out and the hoof wall above it "appears" to look like normal hoof growth.

"Performance Thoroughbreds and Quarter Horses often are found with less than 10mm of sole. They are not typically sound, but they often remain competitive. Their sole depth can decrease to 3-5mm and seem to survive, whereas a horse with 15-20mm of sole that is compressed to 3-4 mm is in serious jeopardy. Laminitic Warmblood horses with 20-25mm of sole compressed to 15mm are seriously compromised and soon develop into high-scale cases. Therefore, the start model is once again part of the assessment."

OK...so this confuses me a bit. From just personally assessing my crew, I can tell you that my "performance QH" have MUCH better sole depth than my TB EVER has had. I can certainly tell you that with regard to the statement above, Blossom would fall into that "serious jeopardy" category with sole depth numbers. I guess my big question is...how would I ever know at this point what her "normal" sole depth before compression now that we already have what is probably some permanent damage from the disease? If they can recover fully from a bout of laminitis, will the sole depth and hoof wall progress to a more "normal" state for the baseline for the breed? Or, does the round of laminitis continually effect these areas even with new growth coming on?

See, Tim, the more educated I can become...the more questions I have! LOL!
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 148
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 01:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"......how would I ever know at this point what her "normal" sole depth before compression now that we already have what is probably some permanent damage from the disease?......."

You won't be able to pinpoint it, but the subsequent radiographs will help you target a "normal" sole depth for her.


"........If they can recover fully from a bout of laminitis, will the sole depth and hoof wall progress to a more "normal" state for the baseline for the breed? Or, does the round of laminitis continually effect these areas even with new growth coming on?......."

Don't quote me on this, as I am struggling to recall many of these thought processes I abandoned a decade ago(again, getting old sucks). But, I think this all has to do with the amount of circulation that has been compromised. As long as circulation has been restored and she doesn't have another episode, hoof/sole growth should return to normal for HER. Foot growth is determined by many factors, blood flow being the most significant. Cut off the blood flow to just one small area of the hoof, and it will drastically change the way it grows.


".....See, Tim, the more educated I can become...the more questions I have! LOL!...."

I spent a year studying Laminitis, 12-15 hrs a day, 6 sometimes 7 days a week and I only have a very limited understanding of this evil affliction. There is soooooo much we don't know. To complicate things even more, every case can be so vastly different and every individual case can change so quickly. It can be difficult to formulate consistant approach, and be confident about it.
 

Bobbi Govro
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 1065
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I appreciate your help. It is so complicated. When we were going through this entire bout of hell, there were so many varying opinions on how to treat her. I felt "blind" going into it, as well as, even the experts. The most difficult part of laminitis can be determining the cause. We at least felt confident that it was fever induced from the mastitis and it was extremely good that my vets were involved from the get-go with treating that as it certainly "helped" when the laminitis appeared. Discovering what the degree of pain is can also be another needle in the haystack. There were times when the condition wasn't always so physically obvious but her pain threshold was pretty low. I know that we had to walk a thin line with the Bute because we didn't want to sedate her so much that she incurred more damage by overuse or masking the pain to a point that we couldn't see progress but on the flip side, we wanted her to be comfortable enough that she would at least use it a bit to encourage circulation and to keep her moving enough that the laminitis wouldn't affect the other hooves that were holding her body weight due to her favoring the one leg so much. Its tough stuff that's for sure!

I had such varying opinions even from the 4 vets that were actively working on her...one wanted her penned up so she couldn't do much walking, others wanted her turned out so that she would continue to at least walk some and not just stand. We finally opted with the "quiet open environment", after consulting with some laminitis researchers, to let her choose her movement. They had found it more successful taking the approach of "if she's hurting and uncomfortable-she will lay down and take the weight off of her legs more often giving her relief from a forced standing position that could make the laminitis worse and if she's feeling some relief, she will move slowly and accordingly therefor continuing to exercise enough to continue stimulation of the blood flow.

I don't know why, and it may be entirely coincidence, but doing the nerve blocks on her right ankle and lower foot is what seemed to help get her over the hump. Dr Chris was not overly impressed with the results that he got out of it as far as getting her pain free enough that she would stand "correctly" but somewhere in there, he "got the right nerve blocked" because it was only within two days that she was walking much better and you could see the pain relief in her eyes. That and she felt good enough to go stand in the gray clay mud of the pond...don't know how that helped but for whatever old farmer's remedy that needs to be listed under, it worked for her as well.

It was interesting though because after that couple of days, I was doing the happy dance because she walked nicely. Dr Chris educated me once more...when he came by and we hand trotted her...which looked much like those cartoons of the big burly man leaning full body weight on the end of the lead rope hooked to a jackass who's sitting down with determination not to move! When we finally got her to actually trot a few spaces, the symptoms showed up. He told me that it is at the trot (not the walk or canter) that you can really see lameness because of the fact they can easily adjust at the other speeds and not so at the trot.

I'm sure as you have said, this is a long recovery period we are looking at with regards to seeing what we end up with. I would suspect that once we get a few farrier trips under our belt, we will get a better picture of how the hoof growth is going and what permanent damage we may be looking at and having to adjust for.

I don't think I still understand why she preferred to "toe" herself around. Even with that really soft sole, I would have thought it would have been more comfortable for her to adjust her movement by "walking" on the inside or the outside of the hoof versus toe down and then step...wouldn't that put alot of pain pressure on those bones being forced down on the toe...like a ballerina up on her toes?
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 910
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 12:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, how is Blossom doing? Any recurrance of the laminitis? I've just recently getting back online, so if you have posted elsewhere, I am sorry to say I've missed it.

Anyway, hope she is okay.
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1811
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of Bobbi!!!! Has anyone talked to her??

Hi Bobby where are you?
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2521
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 12:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

holly, her email is in her profile, and i'm positive she would love to hear from you!!!



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