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Mare & Foal Chaos

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Miscellaneous and Suggestions for a New Topic Category » Mare & Foal Chaos « Previous Next »


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Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 143
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wanted to start a new topic that I'm not sure if anyone else is having problems with.

My horses have always and forever been together. Now that we have babies, I am dealing with some unusual behavior from them.

Blossom, who has always been the Alpha, has developed a friendship with Lena, my professional baby-haver and next in line for Alpha, and CANNOT be without her. Lena has now become the Alpha and will "herd" Blossom & little Moose if she feels that they are in a dangerous situtation (ie: too close to the fence, the other horses whinning, etc). I tried to seperate the two after birth but Blossom was prepared to go through any fence to be with her and vice-versa with Lena. Normally these mares are very docile.

Issue #2: Echo, who has always been the Omega (poor thing will never move up the pecking order), is by herself with her foal in a different field. This is because Lena & Blossom gang-up on her foal (not Echo...just the foal) seperate the foal from her and then proceed to try and kill the thing or run it through the fence. Its not a problem that we have them seperated as far as "space" but now, Echo is like a spastic mess. The wind blows a little and she is ready to come un-glued. I believe her behavior is because she is used to being "bossed" that she feels terribly insecure without the other 2 Alphas.

I have tried to re-introduce everyone (for hours) and that works as long as I have lead ropes on the Alpha mares. Everybody's cool with each other until I take lead ropes off and give them some space. Then, wam, the explosion happens. It is not pleasant trying to catch to raging mares and fish babies out of fences.

Any suggestions? Will this eventually subside? Why the aggressive behavior towards just the foal and not momma? I have never had issues with turning mares/babies out together before. Are these maidens just nuts????
 

Mary Greer
Yearling
Username: Cowgirlup07

Post Number: 78
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am having close to the same problem.. I now have 4 horses (mare&foal,a gelding and a yearling) before the colt arrived everyone was just fine and played together.now the gelding has decided that the colt is a threat to his heard (The gelding is dom.) the little yearling who just tries to mind her own bis. gets caught up in the wrath of the gelding. and cant even eat off of the roundbale due to him kicking her already bad shoulder. I now have momma and baby where they have 2 stalls and 3 "run" areas and the yearlings shoulder is so severly injured she has to be in a box stall with only 5 minute walks 1X daily to strech her leg.What can I do???
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 108
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can only say that I know some horses really bond with each other (and hate others). At my old house, my mare didn't care for any of the horses particularly, until a gelding moved in. it was almost love at first sight and when she left, he was very upset, even though there were still several horses within close proximity.

One of the boarders said that when her mare's baby was weaned, she made a bond with one of her geldings. The gelding goes a little bonkers if she is very far away from him and he will kick at boards to get to her. He also can't stand another horse getting chummy. He'll kick the intruder.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 156
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mary: Gosh...I don't know what to do either?! This is crazy. Now yesterday, everyone was mild and cool as they stood next to each other with the fence between them. But, don't turn them out together because havoc ensues. Its like they want to be together but not within teeth and hoof range. It blew my mind that my prego mare due in June is the one acting like a stud!

Cj: Normally these horses "love" each other. I think this has to do with establishing pecking order but unfortunately, babies don't do well with being "pecked" at. Echo, the Omega of the heard, has a VERY aggressive and confident foal. I think "Alpha" Blossom sees that as a threat to her timid foal. I hoping that all we need is a little grow-up time and a little motherly-instinct relaxation.

Goodness knows whats going to happen when we add foal #3 in June to the mix! Darn...I'm running out of sectioned pasture!
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 152
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Typically, unless I have two mares that JUST REALLY "get along", I keep mares and babies seperated at least until the foals are a month or so old. Even then you have to take it on a case-by-case (i.e., mare-by-mare) basis. Maternal instincts are strong and can really unbalance a previously serene situation. Its nice if the babies can play together but sometimes that is just not possible depending on the mama's personalities. The babies are typically put together when they are weaned at about 5 months or so and they get plenty of interaction with each other then. In addition I have one of those "good ole geldings" that I will put in with them and he keeps them in line pretty well. (Although I still have to set up a creep feeder for them to keep him out and he has become a major "pain in the arse" and an absolute MASTER at creep feeder break-in!)

I have one mare that I am breeding this spring that absolutely hates any and all other horses, so I know that I can't run her with my other broodmare at all. (Can't do it now with both of them open). I shudder to think about what she would probably try to do to the other mare's foal.

One thing that might be exacerbating the situation is pasture size. How big is your pasture? Three or four mares with their babies in a 2 acre pasture are going to interact differently than on a 20 acre pasture. Remember you are approximately doubling your horse herd size and throwing strong hormones in to boot. Crowding can become an issue when it wasn't before. Horses can typically get "their space" in a larger area. If that is not possible, then seperated areas is about your only other option.

As for fencing, I don't know what type of fence you have but I have found that properly installed strong (meaning a good charger) electric fencing typically solves any fence-crashing problems. Even a strand of electro-braid or 2" tape at the top or inside of an existing fence will get a horse's attention. Cheaper than vet bills too.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 135
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 12:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine, this is interesting to me. What do you consider the minimum size pasture per mare with foal, if they are to run together? I understand there are variations. depending upon temperment, the difference in ages of foals, or whatever, but as a rule of thumb, what would be appropriate? And would it depend on the terrain? Eg. irrigated pasture as opposed to a rocky, hillside or dead grass in the summer California heat? I'd appreciate your take on this, if you wouldn't mind.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 170
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine: Thanks for your advice. When I was breeding years ago, I had a nice facility where all my foaling stalls had little 1 acre turnouts with them. Unfortunately this time around, we are in the process of building and its not moving along on schedule which is what really put us in a bind. (It will be better next year!)

When I had my mares together...they were in a lush 12 acre field (3 mares/2 babies). Then when the chaos broke out, I moved Echo and Baby to our 7 acre maternity ward field. And kept Blossom, Baby and Lena in the 12 acre field. I have since had to move Blossom & Lena to another sectioned 5 acres as we fertilized last weekend. So right now, they are back on alfalfa hay in addition to the grass.

There should have been LOTS of room for everyone to get along. And they did...as long as Echo's baby didn't get within a "specified space" that only Blossom could determine was sufficient.

My stallion and gelding are in a 20 acre area with the cows right now.

It should be a hoot of fun this weekend...we have 3 calves to wean and "somebody" horse pair is going to get some company. There are no more sections left!
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 162
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Bobbi, the little foal that gets picked on (I think its Echo's) might buddy up to your calves. Seriously, they may be good company for the foal and if Echo is "spastic" they might give her some company too. Echo sounds like she is lonely and scared but if they are picking on her foal then you don't have much choice but to segregate her and her little one.

Sounds like you have LOTS of room so that isn't the issue. Sounds to me like you have a pecking order that got totally upended once babies started coming.

Its funny how the ole gal's personalities will change! Not necessarily for the better most times. I've had mares over the past 30 years or so that ran the gamut. From one extreme to the other.

The worst mama I ever had was an App mare that couldn't have cared less about her babies. She was a good mare, lots of halter points, etc. I had to give her an F- on maternal instincts though. She was THE ALPHA ruler of the pasture (my almost 17 hand Hunter mare didn't mess with her) but could have cared less about her babies. Wouldn't defend them, nothing. She would lay down in the stall and have them then get right back up and start eating hay. Wouldn't clean them off, wouldn't nuzzle them, NOTHING. She wouldn't reject them and didn't mind when they nursed but a mother she WAS NOT. We always had to keep her seperated when she had a foal to protect the foal from the other mares. She darn sure wouldn't do it.

Then of course I have had the mares that would "eat" everybody, including humans over their babies. These I found a lot of times we had to seperate as well as the mayhem in the pasture was just too much.

Had one little mare that bless her heart, she was barren all of her life. She LOVED the babies though and would try to steal them every chance she got :-) We had to keep her out of the broodmare pasture during the spring/summer. She was however a GREAT buddy for the foals at weaning time.

I am lucky that I have one of those good ole geldings now that takes the role of babysitter once the baby(s) are weaned. He instills "horse manners" on them and I don't think they "freak out" as bad when they have an older, quiet horse as their buddy at weaning time.

*One thing about ole "sorry mama mare" that we had, weaning was never a problem with her :-)
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 163
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 11:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CJ,
Thanks for asking my opinion. I'm glad to help if I can.
I think about a half acre or so at minimum for one mare and baby is adequate. They need to be able to "get out" and baby needs to be able to stretch his legs and learn to play.

Of course terrain is also a consideration. Naturally the thought is the "better" the topography, the better for the foal, but I know people out in West Texas (where I was born) that swear by raising those babies in the canyons out there on the rocks as they think it makes them more sure-footed.

I think most importantly, make sure your pasture/turn-out area(s) are fenced safely and if there isn't enough grass, then of course you will have to feed hay/grain to keep mama in good shape.

A creep feeder needs to be erected when you notice the little bugger starting to try to eat mamas grain. If you have a small enclosure you can do this easily in one corner of it.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 174
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 11:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine: You are sure RIGHT! Interesting how things changed when babies arrived. In all honesty, I believe it was really Lena, the ole pro mare who is due in June, that started the whole mess. She was the one who tried to "steal" Echo's baby from her. Unfortunately Blossom got in on it because Lena did and since Blossom is Alpha #1 and Lena is Alpha #2 it just turned poor Echo's world upside down.

I've noticed that since Blossom & Baby & Lena are just together, Lena watches over Baby. When Blossom or Baby wonder too far, she's there in a streak of lightening to turn them back.

I'm lucky...I do have a wonderful gelding who I would love to turn out with Echo and Baby. They've always been "buds"...problem...then my stallion would be alone and he doesn't handle that very well either, which would inevitably put him through a fence. Can't seem to win here. I can't stall the stallion because Warrior is a cribber...poor thing never ate grass in his life until I bought him as a 5 year-old. Terrible habits they can pick up when stalled all the time. It took us several weeks before he figured out what that green stuff was beneath his feet. He acts like the mighty dragon slayer, but in all reality, my stallion is the most insecure equine on the place.

I think you're on to something...Echo has never minded the cows and being the Omega of the herd has found their company peaceful. Maybe the answer is these weaned calves...they will certainly give little "JJ" something to do!

Thank goodnes I have such a great hubby who is constantly erecting fences and small pasture sections to accomodate my silly and obnoxious horses! He still says his cows are easier...they just go off in the wooded areas, plunk them babies on the ground, keep them hidden for a few days until babies can manuever well, then slowly integrate them back into the herd...all by themselves...without human intervention! Then I have to remind him about how much fun it is to go look for a black angus cow and a 2 day-old black angus calve in the dark, at midnight, on your neighbor's 350 acre farm because they took a fence down with them. At least all the equine chaos happens within our own territory!
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 165
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I grew up on a Black Angus farm outside Amarillo, TX! I love black angus. I know what you are talking about when trying to hunt them down in the dark

I think cattle are good for horses and I have seen foals (as well as grown horses) buddy up to calves and even associate themselves with the "cattle herd" especially if they are the "low horse on the totem pole".

I absolutely adore my horses and am a horse crazy woman but I do agree with your husband, the cattle are "easier" a lot of time. They don't seem to have the personality extremes that horses do on a regular basis. Now bulls, well that IS a different story :-)
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 177
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine: I love the cows too! (Trust me...the maternity/first aid position I hold in my family doesn't stop at the equines...I have 4 gilts going to farrow in the next few weeks...so I'm just getting a "resting reprieve" at the moment.)

Black cows + black nights = Are You Kidding Me??? I'm always afraid when I'm huntin' in the dark that I'm just going to run smack into them before I actually "see" them.

We've had ALOT of people freak out that we have our cows and horses run together. We've never had a problem...other than the usually nosiness of everyone about new additions. The horses definately rule over the hay in the winter, but that's easily solved by putting out several round bales at a time. Everybody gets a piece of the pie and everybody's happy. And what's even more interesting...we work our cattle on horseback...same horses that run with them. The horses and the cows know the difference.

I want to get a few red angus...I just think they are adorable. Still working on my hubby...he likes the black angus.

And our bull...forget it...he's just the most laid-back, slow moving, "pet" you'd ever want to meet. His name, El Zorro, is NOT fitting for his personality. We looked for months before finding/purchasing him because we wanted the docile quality.

High five to a "sister" farmer!
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 166
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right back atcha (high five)!

My most interesting bull story (the bovine kind) involves a bull that was a JUMPER. I mean this guy would jump the 4 1/2 foot woven wire (with a strand of barb wire at the top) from a flat-footed standstill! I mean you had to see it to believe it. He was a sweet bull (as far as bulls go) but you couldn't keep him in. He serviced our cows, the neighbors cows, etc. Some neighbors didn't mind (he was a really nice bull) but some REALLY did mind! Like the poor man down the road with the purebred Charolais.

This thing was a grand jumper better than some of the hunter/jumpers in the shows. And he could launch himself from a virtual standstill, sort of like a basketball player.

We ended up building him a seven foot high fence for himself but turning him out with the cows was a nightmare. He would eventually always decide to "go visiting".
We sold him after a couple of seasons.

Mostly our bulls have always just been "the bull". We respect them and they never really give any problems. Just do what bulls do :-)

As far as running cattle and horses together, once again --- like you said---- if you have the space and distribute the feed right its no problem and I think it is good for the horses to the max.

Nothing is worse than getting to the show with your Western Pleasure horse and having it freak out down one side of the arena because the cattle for the roping are in a pen there.

As for Red Angus, my neighbor just down the road from me raises them. Boy, they are nice. I'm not sure of the lineage but he has some great looking cattle.

We were primarily Black Angus people. My grandfather did get a wild hair one time and decided to raise Longhorns --- oh boy, that is a story all in itself. Talk about something that will take down your fences!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 186
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I LOVED your story! I have been there! Ours visited the neighbor last year for about 4 months...everyone was bred...he was bored, can't say as I blame him. We got weekly updates on our bull kickin' some behind, then his bull kickin' some behind back. It was entertaining.

Long horns??? I say that spells FENCE NIGHTMARE! Cool looking animals though. Don't you have to own a cadillac if your raise them??? Set a pair of them there horns rit there on the ole hood!
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 334
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HI,I HAVE A QUESTION IF SOMEONE KNOWS,IS IT TRUE THAT AN OLDER MAIDEN 14-15 YEARS OLD IS MORE LIKELY TO HAVE A SMALLER FOAL??
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 163
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 02:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Judy, I don't know, but I do have a suggestion. You might want to start a new thread. More will see it for the topic it is. It's an interesting question. An older maiden? I remember reading someone's post about an older maiden too. Is she bred now?
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 175
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 08:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Judy,
That has always been the assumption regarding maiden mares no matter what their age. However, there are always exceptions to anything and I have seen first foals that were huge! But I have probably seen more that were on the smallish side.

I would be more concerned with trying to get a 14-15 year old maiden mare to even settle. When they get that old and have never been bred that can be a real issue.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 197
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 09:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

judy: I've personally never had any issue with an older mare having a smaller foal. In fact, my two maidens proved me wrong this year by giving me some big boys when I thought their foals would probably be smaller! I bred 3 mares that I owned when I was in my 20's and all were maidens over the age of 12 and all settled nicely and all gave birth to some nice foals.

Breeding + foaling = Never Know What You're Gonna Get
 

Terry Waechter maravilla and her posse
Breeding Stock
Username: Watchman

Post Number: 232
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It has been very interesting this year...reconstituting the herd after the mares foaled. I have 7 mares that have lived together since babyhood and this year 5 of them foaled. Putting them back together in a 7 acre irrigated field has presented some "moments" even though I have done it slowly. First, I took out the unbred fillies and just put the first 3 mares with foals into the field. They took opposite corners for a few days and then formed more of a herd. Then I added in the next mare to foal and her baby. there was some chasing around but eventually the group settled back in together. Because I was afraid of foal stealing I kept the mare out that is due to foal and added a yearling and 2 year old thinking they would be so submissive there would be no problem...which turned out to be true. One night the mare due to foal was out with the herd and hell broke loose...was lucky to gather her up and put her back in isolation. She wants her friends but they don't want her. So far there is an uneasy peace. The babies are starting to break away from the moms to play and I think the hyper mom syndrome will soon ease up...hope so....talk about touchy....my sweet mares are all a little ouchy these days.
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 335
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THANK YOU CJ,CATHERINE,BOBBI,I ASK THIS QUESTION BECAUSE LORNA AND I BRED ARE MAIDEN MARES TO THE SAME STALLION (BIG QUARTER HORSE)ARE GIRLS ARE QUARTER ALSO,MY MARE FOALED AT 321 DAYS TO A SMALL COLT,LORNAS MARE FOALED AT 334 HAD A SMALL COLT ALSO,THEY ARE DOING FINE NOW BUT WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY THEY BOTH CAME OUT SO SMALL??THEY BOTH HAD NO PROBLEM SETTLEING.ANY IDEAS???
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 180
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Judy,
What is your definition of "small"? i.e., how tall/weight? I mean are they like "lamb-size" or something freaky?

Lots of factors can determine foal size. Mare nutrition, etc. Also how big (tall) is your mare(s)? How big (tall) is the stallion?

Typically a Quarter Horse baby is going to be smaller than say the neighboring farm's thoroughbred babies. Also if the mare is 14.1 then she most likely isn't going to have a "big" foal as compared to the size of a Belgian draft mare at 17 hands or so.

If the babies are doing fine, then I wouldn't be too concerned. My opinion is that if babies are well taken care of, they will typically "grow into their genes".

As for the whole maiden mare issue, ours typically have had foals that are on the smallish size, let's face it that ole uterus hasn't gotten accustomed to being "roomy" yet. But most of these foals have always grown into their genes, meaning they weren't ultimately dwarfs or anything like that.

My grandfather had racing TB's and most thoroughbred people don't like "first foals". They do believe they are typically smaller, etc. But then a few great racehorses have been first foals.

My point is that their isn't any hard and fast rules and that environmental and genetic factors can play huge roles in foal size and ultimately how large a horse will be when grown.
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 337
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 12:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

catherine,FREAKY????NOOOOOOOO,JUST SMALL, 65-LBS IM GUESSING FOR DICE,BUT THIS FOAL WAS BORN AT 321 DAYS, DICE IS ONLY 14.2. TOSHS FOAL WAS A BIT SMALLER AND HAD TO HAVE SOME PLASMA AND ANTIBIOTICS,BUT HOPEFULLY WILL BE GAINING WEIGHT AND DOING FINE, TOSH IS UNDER 15 HANDS,THANK YOU FOR THE INFO ON MAIDEN MARES AND TYPICAL FOAL SIZE ,SORRY IF I CAME OFF TO STRONG BUT THIS HAS BEEN A VERY TRYING TIME FOR LORNA AND I,SEEMS LIKE WE DID NOT GET THE TYPICAL FOAL AND WE HAD TO HAVE A LOT OF INTERVENTION WITH ARE VETS FOR DAYS AFTER,SOMETHING LORNA IS STILL DEALING WITH. THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR INFORMATION.DICES FOAL IS DOING GREAT NOW AND HAS GROWN ALOT AND GAIN WIEGHT.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 202
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 02:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terry: Thanks for your insight. They are just regular ole crabs. I'm thinking maybe foal heat is also playing into their cranky behavior. I'm glad I'm not the only one that has peace, then chaos...crazy!

Catherine: You just crack me up sometimes! (lamb-size or something freaky) I LOVE people who just "say it like it is."

judy: Wow! 65 pounds?? Really?? That IS small. But, like Catherine says, if you're talking a small mare and/or a small stallion...you just may be getting those short & stocky type quarter traits. Did you and Lorna ever get a chance to see any of the other foals this guy has sired? I would be curious to know what he's thrown in the past with other mares.
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 339
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HI BOBBI,YES WE DID SEE SOME OF HIS FOAL AND THEY WERE NOT SMALL AT ALL,THE STALLION IS 15.1 HANDS AND HAS A TYPICAL QUARTER HORSE STALLION BODY,TONED AND MUSCLEY.I HAVE SEEN 3-4 MONTH OLD FOALS FROM HIM THAT WERE GOOD SIZE,ALTHOUGH I DONT KNOW IF THE MARES WERE MAIDEN OR HOW OLD THEY WERE.THE STALLIONS NAME IS FIRST CLASS CHIPPEWA.IF YOU WANT YOU CAN SEE HIM AND HIS FOALS GO TO http://www.lattefarms.com/contactus.html
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 209
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He's a nice boy! Hmmmm...I've raised Quarter Horses for years. Some of them do have a smaller build when they're born and then grow-out, grow-up, grow-out, grow-up. Had a Poco bred horse once that never got any bigger than 14.2 but man...he was a stout and powerful guy! He was born what I considered an "ideal, dainty filly."

I'm assuming you are from California??? (Just guessing since that's where daddy is located.) Interesting on your foaling dates. I believe "normal" (if there is such a thing) can range from 320-370 days. With your dates of 321 and 334, maybe you all just "cook" them faster than the rest of us 355+ dayers. Maybe your foals are normal and its all of our big, half-weaned babies that are the freaks!

Not that I am trying to make lite of a concern of yours, just my age-old philosophy that "normal" changes daily and with breeding, technology, and all those other human interventions we've thrown in the natural horse world, maybe we've lost track of what "normal" is.

You and Lorna keep your chins up. It sounds like you're almost "over the hump" from the veterinary intervention and I think you'll be surprised at how big and fast these guys are going to grow. I just keep shaking my head...when I had Moose IGg tested on his 2 day birthday he was 128 pounds...90% of that was leg bone I swear! I can't even imagine smaller. How adorable they must be!
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 340
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BOBBI THANK YOU,WE ARE KEEPING ARE CHINS UP.YES WE ARE IN CENTERAL CALIFORNIA.JOS DID SAY NORMAL RANGE IS 320-370 BUT I CANT EVEN EMAGINE TOSHA'S FOAL BEING BORN AT 320 DAYS THANK GOD HE WASNT UNTELL 334 DAYS.WELL THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TRYING TO HELP US UNDERSTAND WHY..HERE IS CHENOA AND MY MARE DICE http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/judycervantes/007-7.jpg
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 188
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awwww.... Judy, Chenoa is pretty (so is his Mama). Dice doesn't look that big so it may be a blessing she didn't have a huge baby, particularly the first time around. I don't think the baby looks horribly little or anything like that. Maybe a bit on the small side, sort of hard to tell from the pic but it didn't strike me as "strangely small" or anything. (Okay Bobbi, you can laugh now :-)

Just get the foal started on creep feed as soon as it decides to check it out. The mare is milking okay? Has lots?

As a side note, I checked out the stallion and he doesn't look that big to me either. Maybe he is 15.1 with his shoes on. He looks real "foundation" type and they aren't known for height.

I think your baby is just fine and as I stated earlier, I bet it will grow into its genes. I doubt it will grow to be 16 hands or anything close to that but I bet he/she will be at least as big as the mama.
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1424
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Judy~my first foal was a stud colt and a shrimp! He was born on day 379 so like you I am glad he baked but he grew to his potential. He is a fine boned horse but is as tall as his momma...who is 14-2. I love the heigth! It is so easy to mount:-) Don't be tempted to "overfeed" for him to grow. I free fed alfalfa and baby began picking and eating that and I did not begin with Equine Jr till 4 weeks and just a small amount based on weight. Momma's milk is the best in the beggining.
 

Terry Waechter maravilla and her posse
Breeding Stock
Username: Watchman

Post Number: 237
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also have pondered the "big or smallish" question as I had 4 maidens all in foal to the same stallion. The foals are different sizes and actually the biggest mare (16.1) had the smallest baby. I think it has to do with the genetic package each colt got. One favors the dam sire, one is part quarter horse, one is the spitting image of his sire and the fourth is a giraffe. All the mares were fed the same, in good flesh at foaling etc etc. it is interesting, isn't it? All the foals are developing well and gaining weight. I like to look at them at about 3-4 weeks when they have unfolded and put on some weight. Even though the four boys are different heights and weights they are are all very active and gaining weight nicely.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 218
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 12:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Judy: I'm in agreement with Jan and Catherine...he looks fine to me! I don't think baby is TOO small. He looks well-rounded and proportional. I think you are going to end up with a really nice horse!

My babies are 2 weeks old and they aren't real interested in grain yet, but like Jan said, they are experimenting with munching on a little alfalfa.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 222
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 01:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Week two of mother/foal choas: Interesting behaviors:

Blossom is such a huge grouch and has decided when she is being grained twice a day that she does not want Moose anywhere in her "space". Ears pinned back and swift kick has taught him that he is not welcome to her during HER dinner time. She's fine with him during all the other time. I guess she has decided that those few moments a day are hers and hers alone!

Lena, the pro brood mare and evidently Moose's surogate mother, lets him amble over and share from her feed. And she's the usual chow hound that is stingy and demands to be the first one fed.

??????????????????????????????

Inside the head of a broodmare...not an easy place to be.
 

Cyndy Wiser
Yearling
Username: Cyndy

Post Number: 74
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi & Catherine, reading some of your earlier posts sure made me get all nostalgic! Catherine I grew up in central texas on a farm. (still live in Texas for that matter!) We always had black angus and quarter horses too. They all co-mingled and existed well together. To this day I am partial to them. You guys brought back memories...hunting for them in the dark of night with flashlights. Usually it was winter or a late cold snap when one of the cows would be missing at feed time and we'd have to set about searching for her. We'd usually find her at the farthest point of the place (and the woodiest) where she had dropped a calf. The worst part was having to help dad pack those calves all the way back to the house on our shoulders with mama bawling at the whole way. Gee, I thought I was working my butt off but now I look back and those really were great times!

We had a bull named "Oscar" that loved to go visiting the neighbors cows every chance he got. He was also very gentle but had no idea that the barbed wire fencing was supposed to keep him from trying to court the cows next door!!!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 227
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cyndy: Glad I could bring back some good times! For all the trouble our critters create...they really are the heart of who I am. I never have a moment to myself it seems but I don't know what I would do without each and every facet their existance brings to my life. I've always been a farm girl and you either love it or you don't. Plant me in the city and I would wither away!

There's nothing better than an afternoon like today, sitting on the top of a beautiful green field that overlooks the property and seeing a nice herd of Angus cattle with babies sunning by their sides, mares with babies who gallop and jump in the air taking on an imaginary friend, the nice, soft grunting of some of the most sweet and loveable sows as they enjoy the warm day preparing for motherhood.

It just don't get no better than this!
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 344
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THANKS YOU GUYS,I FEEL BETTER ABOUT HIS SIZE NOW,LIKE TERRI SAID I THINK HE HAS UNFOLDED AND GAINED SOME WEIGHT AND I WILL BE HAPPY IF HES THE SIZE OF HES MOM,I DONT LIKE BIG HORSES!CHENOA IS 18 DAYS OLD AND MORE INTERESTED IN MOMAS POO THEN HAY.WHAT DO YOU GUYS PUT IN THE CREEP FEEDER??
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 231
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Judy: Hahahaha...in my case nothing...my two foals are already too tall to get into our creep feeder!
 

Cyndy Wiser
Yearling
Username: Cyndy

Post Number: 76
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen Bobbi....if only I could win the lottery I would retire so that I could do the same thing!! As it is, I have to wait for the weekends and mother nature to cooperate with me to have those "peaceful" moments!!!
 

Beth
Yearling
Username: Beth13

Post Number: 59
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 10:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our mare was 21 years old when she had her first foal- a big healthy filly. The birth was fine and they were both fine afterwards as well. Unfortunatly she got colic about 10 weeks off her due date and had a really bad abortion so she's now a riding mare only. Her filly was by a stallion that was taller than her as well.

I am also a farm girl!! We had cattle too... mainly Friesan and Murray Grey crosses but we had to sell them because of the drought. Although we do have one Angus x heifer left, she slipped next door the day the truck came out! (clever girl)She does just fine for campdrafting practice. We ran our horses with the cattle as well and we use our horses for mustering. The only problems we had were the horses- the love mustering so much they decided to go freelance with me!! Ditto for the sheep.



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