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Colic

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Miscellaneous and Suggestions for a New Topic Category » Colic « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Heather Cooke
Yearling
Username: Hcvideo

Post Number: 72
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi
My coming 3 yr old stallion(Welsh/TB) was put down on due to a Pelvic Flexure Impaction Thursday, (12/20/07). He went of his feed on Friday night (12/14/07) and had watery diahrea. I stayed with him all night and he only acted uncomfortable when he had a bowel movement. On Saturday I called the vet out that was on call and he arrived about 1:30. Here in Gainesville, Florida the large animal vets don't work on the weekends unless it is their turn to be on call so you are kind of stuck with whoever happens to be on call that day.

Well the vet said he had viral or bacteria infection of the gut. He did not palpate even when I suggested he might have a partial blockage.

He gave him Bio-Sponge, Dexamethasone, Gentocin, Penicillin, and a little oil. He Refluxed him (nothing), Temp(100.5) Pulse(44pm) Resp.(20bpm) M.M.(Pink) CRT(<2sec).

I was told to give him 2ml Xylazine and 1 ml of Ace for pain, 6 oz. of pepto bismol and 7-300mg of Ranitidine 3 to 4 times a day. And Penicillin (12-15ml) once a day and banimine sparingly(3ml).

I was told it would take 3 to 4 day for him ride it out and to keep him comfortable. He was never left unattended. On Tuesday evening he crashed, I called the vet but he was out of town so another vet was on call since it was after 5 you get who ever is on call. The new vet was informed of the stallions problem, she came out heavily sedated him and help me get my stallion in the trailer ans sent me to Ocala Equine Med.Center.

That is when I found out my stallion had an impaction not an infection. He was there 2 days but it was to late. The team at Ocala Equine Med.Center. were great, I have nothing but praise for them.

The first vet totally screwed up, $3000 in vet bills and no stallion to breed to my little mare I have been collecting for the last 2 years. I'm devastated. How do you hold Him responsible?
[IMG]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa170/hacooke/buzzy1.jpg[/IMG]
 

Jenni Luttrell
Breeding Stock
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 418
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 08:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

does he own the practice or work under another vet?
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 602
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 09:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First of all, I want to say how truly sorry I am for your loss. I can't tell you how badly I feel, he was magnificiant!

The problem with not only vets, but with human doctors as well, is that alot of their practice is trial and error. It can be a guessing game. Especially hard is the fact that animals can't tell the vet where it hurts or whatever. I think the vet did what he thought best, but he was wrong. I'm not sticking up for him, it's just that it must be hard to be 100% right all the time.

If I were you, I would have a talk with the vet to let him know his prognosis was wrong and that you'll not be paying the bill since what he suggested caused the death of a valuable and loved animal. He needs to know the magnatude of his error so that this won't happen to someone else.

Then I think I would talk to an attorney to see if you have any recourse. I don't understand why the vet thought this horse had an infection when he didn't have a temp. And to say it will take 3 or 4 days and to keep him comfortable and to ride it out is unexceptable. If the vet had this stallion's best interest at heart, he would have wanted to see him again in 24 hours, not 3 or 4 days. Unexceptable behavior on the vets part.

Again, I'm so sorry, what a heartbreaking loss for you...

Marilyn
 

Jenni Luttrell
Breeding Stock
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 422
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He was a beautiful stallion. I dont think it would be unexceptable to ask the vet to eat the bill and pay compensation for the loss of your boy. True medicine is trial and error but some things are just rediculous and this is one of them. I know money wont replace your loss but I certainly hope you go after it. Before prescribing anything more less everything he did a much more thoughal eval should have been done.
God Bless You and I hope the new year brings you much better news
 

Jane Olney-Nursemare foal adopt ?/2008
Breeding Stock
Username: Shotsnurse1

Post Number: 505
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So sorry Heather. He was beautiful....
 

Lynn Ison
Breeding Stock
Username: Lynndi

Post Number: 646
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather, I am so sorry for your loss. I can not imagine being in your shoes. Please talk to your lawyer! Compensation is due!!!!!!!!!
I am devastated for you, that was one stunning stallion. so so sorry.
Prayers and strength sent your way...............
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 421
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 04:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather, I am so sorry for your loss. What a truly handsome boy your stallion was, I can't even begin to imagine how I would feel if I lost one of my horses.

Have you talked to any other vets on how they would of responded to his symptoms? I think it would work to your advantage to get some second opinions. I'm not a vet but if my horse went off of feed and had pain with bowel movements the first thing I would want investigated would be a colic/impaction. I definitely think you at least need your bill written off, obviously nothing is going to make it right but I would do whatever you can. Please keep us posted.
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 509
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 05:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a quick question since you are in Gainesville why do you not utilize the University. They do lots of my surgeries. In fact that only thing they do not do is orthopedic surgery which is all done at Peterson and Smith.
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 937
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather,
HUGS AND MORE HUGS, and tears along with you. This is incredibly painful :-( My deepest sympathy.

As far as responsiblity if you feel the vet did malpractice by all means you are entitiled to your medical costs and the value of your stallion, and perhaps future loses as well. Document Document everything while it is fresh in your mind. Write it all down from before he got ill, his illness, your vet interactions, and hospital employee's statements. So that you have what you need if you decide to go forward with legal action. I would also call the vet and see what his/her remedy for this would be. Good luck, keep us posted, and again Heart Break but know that you did all you humanely could.
 

Heather Cooke
Yearling
Username: Hcvideo

Post Number: 73
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy
I was told he did not need surgery, he needed fluids, antibiotic and pain management, remember he had not been palpated and we did not know he had an impaction. I could get to Ocala Equine hospital just as quick as UF vet school and a lot less traffic.
When he was finally palpated at the hospital the vet's sleeve had a red tint to it, which is not good.
I could of had surgery done but he had had an impaction in the small colon for 4 days with no treatment for it. Having an impaction in the small colon for 4 days is almost a guarrentee to have damage to that section of the colon and it would have to be removed. Colic surgery is most successful when done in the first 24 hours before any damage of has be done to the colon. If a section of the colon has to be removed the success rate really drops. Impactions in the small colon almost always has samanila to deal with afterwards. The cost of colic surgery without any complications cost $6000 to $8000, and could be well over $10000 with complications.

On Saturday when the vet first treated him I suggested he might have a partial blockage. Palpating is standard protocol for a colicing horse. Most colic in Florida is caused by an impaction. I just read a report that almost every horse in Florida will suffer from at least one impaction in their life time due to the fine Florida Bermuda hay and the sandy soil. It is usually easy to resolve when caught early. My stallion had a Pelvic Flexure Impaction, the vet at the hospital found it immediately, her arm was about 12" in the rectum when she found it, not even up to her elbow. Pelvic Flexure is the most common site of impaction.

The care my stallion recieved at Ocala Equine hospital was excellent, it was just to late.

I own 20 ponies/horses, make that 19 now and this is the first case of colic I have had in over 15 years so when my stallion acted colicy I took it seriously. I'm not use to dealing with an incompenent vet in an emergency situation. I have learned a lot, "MAKE THE VET PALPATE".

The sad part is holding the vet accountable is almost impossible. Most victims of an incompenent vet just whine and avoid them, that just enables them to go on as usual. Finding a expert that will testify against the vet is difficult to impossible. They have the "You cover my sorry ass and I'll cover yours" understanding. I'm waiting for the records from Ocala Equine hospital, I'll make copies of it along with his statement and start sending them out. I'm not going to quit on this.
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 510
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 07:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, my vet always palpates a colic. What hay do you feed? I ask this because I too lost a mare to colic when feeding coastal hay, since they switched to everyone getting alfalfa or and orchard alfalfa mixed and ...no colic.
 

Jane
Yearling
Username: Dizzykizzy

Post Number: 88
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather, I am so so sorry for you. What a dreadful thing to happen and made worse by the vet's incompetence. Thoughts are with you from the UK.
 

Tawnya Reber
Breeding Stock
Username: Horserescuer42

Post Number: 133
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 09:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

first of all, i am so sorry for your loss of your horse. i cant imagine.
2nd, and i may get in trouble for this, but why in a time of loss, instead of saying how sorry you are cathy, would you ask her that and only make her feel worse about what she didnt do. sometimes your postings are very heartless. sorry but i have to say it.
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 511
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 06:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm just trying to offer advice to prevent future deaths, I too had a time of loss but did not ask for sympathy, I looked to several people who knew more than me and get the real answers. It is ashame a horse died but it would be worse if she did not learn from its death to benefit her other horses.
 

Heather Cooke
Yearling
Username: Hcvideo

Post Number: 74
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe Cathy was trying to educate me that coastal bermuda is the one of the main causes of impaction colic, which is true. I have been feeding coastal bermuda for more than 15 years and this is my first case of colic, any kind of colic. First of all I don't feed free choice for that very reason, I dish it out carefully. 2nd I'm not sure if it was the hay that caused the impaction, I think it could of been the acorns, we have had a bumper crop of acorns this year which I did discuss with the vet. I'm waiting to get the file of my stallion to see what they found. I believe my Stallion would have been fine if he had been treated properly in the first place, he needed fluids not bio-sponge and anti-biotics. I had suggested to the vet that he might have a partial blockage but them what do I know, I never went to vet school.

I have considering switching to alfalfa pasture blocks or T&A if I could get the big pasture blocks but my concern is I have ponies 13 - 14.2 hand ponies, I would have to take them off grain. Will they founder if I give the little pigs free choice? If I dish it out to them to play it safe will they eat it to quickly then not feel satisfied? How much should I give them? To grain or not?

Our pastures have been hit by a frost and there is no grazing, coastal bermuda hay dies when it is hit by a frost. During the winter I usually close them up in a run-in stall with small individual paddocks (20' x 80')that does not have any grass for them to eat roots and sand, then I turn them out ever other day for a romp in the pasture for a couple of hours.

I pay $125 a ton for coastal bermuda hay and feed about 2 tons a month that works out to an average of 6.5 pounds of hay per pony per day (divided into 2 feedings). My ponies also get grain 2.5 pounds and 3/4 pound of beat pulp (before water is added) each day (divided into 2 feedings). It cost me an average of $30 per pony per month for feed and hay.

My ponies are fat, some to fat, clip them up and give them a bath they could go to any show in the country.

Does anyone know how many pounds of alfalfa or T&A aday it would take to keep a 14 hand pony fat in the winter here in North Central Florida. Remember we have no grass during the winter.

Cathy, have you ever figured out how much alfalfa hay each of your TB horses eat (free choice)in a year, how many tons of hay did you buy last year, how many horses? I was wondering how much alfalfa a horse "would" eat when given free choice? Do you also feed grain?

I think going 15 years with a herd of 20 ponies and only one case of colic is doing pretty good.

How many cases of colic have you experienced in the last 10 years, how many horses do you own? What was the cause of the colic? How was it treated, what was the out come?

Has any one out there held a vet accountable for a misdiagnost?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.
 

Phyllis Schroder
Nursing Foal
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 19
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 01:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather,
I am so terribly sorry to hear about your loss. He was a gorgeous young fellow.
Unfortunately these things do happen and you may never truly know the exact cause (from the hay to waking up on the wrong side of the stall that day) so please don't second guess and beat yourself up over what you did or didn't do and so on. You'll only succeed in making yourself miserable and gain nothing from it. You did what you knew to be right and everything you should have and you can't be faulted or feel guilty for that.
I know it's hard (been there) but consider what you've learned and experienced through this tragedy and try to bring something good or learn something beneficial to you for future use from it. It literally could be knowledge that saves another horses life down the road. I think this is all Cathy is saying, and I do agree on that. You can't change the past so don't dwell on it, but learn from it.
Consider making a back-up plan so if you are not happy with the vets diagnosis or the vet that's on call you already have a plan set to take the horse elsewhere or be seen by another party.
You may even go the route i took. I love my regular vet but when it comes to colic, I give banamine, good dose of electrolytes,load up and haul 1.5 hrs away to an equine hospital that specializes in colic or Tx A&M. I no longer even waste the time to make the phone call to my everyday vet. At best I wasted a couple hours of my time and some gas for nothing, well worth it.
We also have bermuda pasture grasses and hays, but if you are interested in keeping a winter pasture you may want to throw down rye grass seed for the winter. I still feed hay anyway even with the rye grass.
I don't think I would really worry to much about making drastic changes to all your horses diets based on this event. What you're doing feedwise must obviously be working well for them or you'd have had a lot more cases of colic from a group that size.
With the coastal/jiggs I just watch that my guys are getting a very good fluid intake. I have one or two that will stop drinking well when the weather flips around hot/cold/hot again and that can be a quick recipe for colic.
As for the vets misdiagnosis/negligence, i could only wish you the best. In the several occurrences I know of like this it has never amounted to anything more than wasted time and frustration for the owner.
I know it doesn't change things, but just think of all the wonderful healthy ponies you still have that love ya!:-)
 

Kim Peavy/ Sweetie 7/3/08
Yearling
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 71
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 06:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Heather: Been reading all the posts here and I'm so sorry for your loss. We also live in Florida...Central and we don't have much pasture grass either. After much thought and discussion, we asked our boarding facility if we could put a large O&A Alfalfa block in the pasture for our two broodmares. We did and purchased our first one on Dec 15th. To give you an idea how long it lasts...I went out yesterday to check on them...it was gone...so it lasted about 10 days, but I expected the first one to go fast...it was their first time free feeding. The bale itself was a 554 pound bale. We are going to purchase our second one today and I'll keep you posted as to how long it lasts. They certainly enjoyed it and ate as they felt like it. Now my daughter has a 14.2 hh pony (little appy leopard) and he stays fat. She rides him 4-5 days per week and he barely gets 1 cup of feed twice a day and some coastal hay. He just stays fat and healthy. So I can't help you out there, cause any more feed for him and he'd be really overweight. I wanted to get some alfalfa hay for my other appy gelding for free choice, however, he is pastured with little piggy pony and that just would not work, so he just gets extra at feeding time. I think the coastal hay actually helps these guys, cause it helps pull some of the sand out....but you just never know. A few months back one of the boarded ponies (little paint) colicked and she was eventually put down after a very long night of walking and treatment....she was found to have 75% sand in her manure. She was a new boarder...but she too was fat and sassy...you would have never known she had such a sand problem. I do hope you find some answers from the vet's office and can make some peace with what happened. Your boy was beautiful and I know you are just heart sick....you are in my prayers...wishing you peace...Kim
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 621
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 07:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather, there's a lot of people who care about you and wish you well and peace of mind.

I pray that whatever you choose to do, it will be what's best for you and your family.

God bless you Heather.
Marilyn
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 512
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 07:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather, I have a field with 8 mares in it and they eat about 1200 lbs of the big aqlfalfa blocks a week. If something happens and the big blocks are not in stock I just take the little bales in the field and set one by every other feed tub, so I figure half a bale per horse per day. My horses look well fed but not fat.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 636
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 07:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, that's about the amount I feed my Throughbreds. Good to hear I'm feeding the right amount.
 

Kay B. Jones, Topi due 3/1
Yearling
Username: Kaybjones

Post Number: 67
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of my horses colicked badly about 4 years ago. Had to go on IV, mineral oil, etc. @1500$ worth at the vet. He suggested a heaping tablespoon of metamucil daily in her feed. I buy the cheaper brand at Walmart and feed all of them that. I also when its cold , heat her water and pour it in her feed(Strategy) to make sure she's getting enough fluid. I also portion out her bermuda hay. She has not colicked since. My mare is 23 years old. My gelding has followed the same regimen but he has had slight cases of colic ( usually subsides quickly) I switched him to equine senior by Purina. He was also coughing a lot. He is also 23 years old.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Breeding Stock
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 459
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is something that ive used in horses with bad teeth that might be of use to you guys. If feeding oats, corn, or any other grain I soak it over night or boil it till its pretty mushy. If you do this dont drain any left over water thats were all the good stuff is. I then sprinkle it with calf manna &/or brewers yeast and maybe some mollasses for a treat.



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