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Lutalyse not optimal but only option!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Hormonal Manipulation » Lutalyse not optimal but only option! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Julie G
Nursing Foal
Username: Julie_g

Post Number: 19
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 12:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos and all - I missed my mare's last cycle because I made the mistake of relying on identifying estrus by teasing her with a gelding. (She teased with him so well on her previous cycles, but not this one!). Long story short, I probably have only one chance remaining this season to breed her with this particular stallion. She had a big corpus hemorrhagicum when checked last Thursday morning, August 13th. The stallion owner will only be able to collect until August 24th or August 25th, then that will be it for this season. Not enough time for P&E, so I'll have to take my chance with Lutalyse. My question is, should I give two (or maybe three) low-dose (0.2ml) injections of Lutalyse starting tomorrow and hope for the best? I know the average time to ovulation is 9.5 days after Lutalyse provided she doesn't have a large follicle present now. I was hoping I might be able to close the interval a little bit with Deslorelin if in fact she has smaller follicles at the time of treatment with Lutalyse. Any comments or suggestions??
 

Julie G
Weanling
Username: Julie_g

Post Number: 21
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 03:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gee, also, I guess this could also possibly be an anovulatory hemorragic follicle?? I will see if I can get my vet out asap to check the mare again. If it as an AHF, is there hope for another normal cycle this season? What can be done?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2584
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 06:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you saw a CH rather than a CL, the mare had either just ovulated, in which case, giving Prostaglandin F before about the 19th is going to be questionable in efficacy, or as you note it could have been an AHF with fibrinous strands contained therein (which could look a bit like a CH).

If you give Prostaglandin F on the 19th, then your mare (presuming as you note, no large follicles are present) will be likely to ovulate somewhere around the 25-27, which could be good for you. 2 microdoses would probably be adequate, but if you want to play on the safe side, three won't hurt.

If it is an AHF, then the outcome will depend upon if there is luteal tissue present or not. If there is luteal tissue present, then with luck you should be able to lyse it with the Prostaglandin F and the mare will respond as above. If there is no luteal tissue present, then you are probably outa luck... :-(
 

Julie G
Weanling
Username: Julie_g

Post Number: 23
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 07:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos. Hoping that it's the first scenario (CH - mare just ovulated) especially since the last ovulation was 20 days before. I'll have her checked tomorrow or Wednesday. If it looks like an AHF, do you recommend several days of low dose PGF?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2586
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 08:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If it's an AHF with luteal tissue present, then it will respond to Prostaglandin F in the same way that a receptive CL would - 3 days of low-dose or 2 days of low dose, or a single "standard" dose. Your choice. If it has no luteal tissue present it won't make any difference which you choose.
 

Julie G
Weanling
Username: Julie_g

Post Number: 24
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos,

Here's what we have as of this afternoon... The good news is that there is no HAF! On the left ovary (her very active ovary and the one that we saw the CH/early CL last Thursday 8/13) she has THREE CLs and one follicle that is approximately 28mm, no other follicles on that ovary. On her right ovary, she had multiple very small follicles. All season she has ovulated from that left ovary. Last Thursday she had a couple secondary follicles on her left ovary in addition to the CH that evidently went on to ovulate (not sure when). I started giving micro doses of Lutalyse yesterday morning and plan to give for at least 3 consecutive days. Should I continue another couple days since she has those additional CLs? We plan to recheck her first thing Monday morning. Is it possible that 28mm follicle may be large enough to breed on next week?? Just worried about the 2 additional CLs and when they will be responsive to Lutalyse.
 

Julie G
Weanling
Username: Julie_g

Post Number: 25
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 07:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Update...mare won't be ready to breed mid-week this week...she still has one luteal structure. However, stallion owner will collect in a couple weeks when he returns from Europe. :>) Yay! I'm starting P & E on Monday 8/31 and will breed the week of 9/14.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2595
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While you may still have functional CL's present, be aware that it is possible to have visible per ultrasound an old CL that is no longer functional (i.e. is not secreting progesterone). Hence it is still possible for a mare to return to estrus with what appears to be a CL on the ovary per u/s.
 

Julie G
Weanling
Username: Julie_g

Post Number: 26
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos. I should have also added that she *may* have just a slight bit of uterine edema and the follicle that we saw last week looked about the same, so we felt she wouldn't be ready to breed mid-week. The stallion owner is leaving today for 11 days.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2597
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 02:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Edema sounds more hopeful, but if it's already present, I wouldn't count on her holding out 11 days before being ready to be bred... :-(
 

Julie G
Weanling
Username: Julie_g

Post Number: 28
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah...mares - a four letter word! Can I ask you another question? The stallion owner has graciously agreed to collect the stallion when he gets back. I started P&E because I want to be able to more accurately pinpoint a breeding date. How soon after you complete the protocol should you have the mare checked for heat status? Thanks!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2605
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 11:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We recommend checking the mare by ultrasound on day 14 overall of the period (i.e. 4 days after the last dose of the 10-day treatment). This might be a little early, and you may not see a significant follicle, but it's better to check once to often than once too few, and it gives your vet a base line to work from. Although P&E is reliable around 80% of the time, there are aberrations, so better safe than sorry!



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