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Recyling mare for the 3rd time

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Hormonal Manipulation » Recyling mare for the 3rd time « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Melissa Ahlers
Neonate
Username: Texasmja

Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 11:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have had our mare at the vet to be bred and he has missed her ovulation 2 times in a row. We are going to short cycle her again in hopes of finally being able to breed her. We are using shipped semen and the stallion station only collects on odd days so we have to plan this good so that we don't miss it again.

Last ovulated on Monday June 2nd. She has been consistantly ovulating between 35-37. So we need to set her up to ovulate on an even day during the week as we want to be able to ship Fedex.

My vet gave me two shots to give her two days in a row and said to start on Tuesday June 10 (2cc) and then another on Wednesday June 11 (1cc). My question is if I do this will the second shot do anything or delay her by a day? I am confused as to why two doses? I need to order semen to be collected on an odd day and have her ovulate on a even day. Another thing is she has been ovulating early in the morning, should I give the shots later in the day to hold her longer in the day to allow the semen to be delivered? Does that matter?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1998
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 12:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you want to tightly pinpoint the ovulation, throw out the prostaglandin you've got and use P&E. The average range of duration to ovulation following giving prostaglandin is 1-22 days. With P&E about 90% of mares will have a 35 mm follicle on day 18 after the initial treatment (8 days after the last).

Or to put it another way - it doesn't matter when you give the prostaglandin as the results will not be predictable.

The two doses incidentally are probably micro-doses, which will avoid the unpleasant side effects usually seen with a full dose of prostaglandin (sweating, cramping etc.)
 

Melissa Ahlers
Neonate
Username: Texasmja

Post Number: 6
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos,

I have the shots (Lut) and one is 2cc and the other is 1cc. What if I only gave her one shot, wouldn't it still do the same thing? I don't want to over use meds if there is no proof they are of benefit.
 

Melissa Ahlers
Neonate
Username: Texasmja

Post Number: 7
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 09:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The last interval of Lutalyse to ovulation was 9 days.
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 287
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 10:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa 2cc is not a micro dose and giving that amount should not require a second dose. Micro doses are 0.2ml of Lutalyse 2 days in a row.
 

Melissa Ahlers
Neonate
Username: Texasmja

Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Cathy, that is exactly what I am saying also. I knew I wasn't crazy here.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2000
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would seem strange that you have been given two full doses. There would be no benefit to giving it that I can see, and all it's going to do is make your mare uncomfortable. As Cathy has said, the micro doses are very much micro - 1/10th of the standard dose - so 0.1 or 0.2 ml. You could get a couple of insulin syringes from a pharmacy and decant 0.2 ml into them, and use them 2 days in a row to avoid torturing your mare unnecessarily.

The average interval to ovulation following treatment with prostaglandin is 9.5 days, but that is an average. As I noted above, the range is huge, and not overly predictable. A lot will depend upon what structures are present on your mare's ovaries at the time of treatment. If there is a large follicle present, you are likely to see entry to estrus and ovulation a lot faster - as little as a few hours and less than 24 hours respectively! And as I also noted above - if you want reliability of timing, prostaglandin is not for you...
 

Melissa Ahlers
Neonate
Username: Texasmja

Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos and Cathy. I have decided to make the long haul up to the stallion station and let them try and breed her instead of me wasting more time and money down here with my vets.
 

Melissa Ahlers
Neonate
Username: Texasmja

Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I told them about the micro doses for two days in a row at the beginning of breeding season and they never heard of it. I gave them your website but I am sure they didn't look. I can only tell them, it doesn't mean they will listen or change what they have always done...
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2001
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am always inclined to view any persons that are "fixed" in their ways as being potentially not on the leading edge of technology or as effective as they may be. I am the first to accept that there is more than one way to do a variety of things in the reproductive field, but I also believe that one should be prepared to both research and embrace new and proven technology, and not discard it because "we've been doing it this way for years and it's always worked, so why change it now?"... :-(

Your decision may turn out to be a good one...



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