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Stud colt bred his dam

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Hormonal Manipulation » Stud colt bred his dam « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 151
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 10:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I knew I was playing with fire, but until today I had not seen my yearling put enough together to get the job done, but today my husband witnessed him breed his dam. They are now separated.

I think what spurred the whole thing on is we brought a new mare in who is in heat. They could socialize a little too much at the gate. The new mare likes the stud colt and the mare. My mare likes the new mare. They tease each other over the gate until they are standing basically. My mare came very much in heat. My colt got in on the action.

So the two mares are now together and the colt is by himself. There is a hotwire over the gate, so no more carousing.

So now what? My farrier was here tonight and suggested I see if she comes in next cycle, then lutalyse her if she does not.

What is recommended here? How many of you would terminate this type of pregnancy? I had no plans to take her to any other stud this year.
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 1239
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 02:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Call your vet now. There is no reason to wait, he/she can advise you what meds to give to induce a heat cycle and make sure she's not pregnant.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1913
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You need to wait until at least 6 days after the ovulation for use of prostaglandin to cause short-cycling and return to estrus (with associated pregnancy loss if there is a pregnancy), so certainly talk to your vet, but unless they recommend otherwise, I'd wait until about 8 days after you see the mare still being in heat before giving the prostaglandin.
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 1241
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 01:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's what I meant Jos :-) No need to wait to call the vet, do it now and find out what they recommend :-)
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 152
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 10:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, my vet recommends 14 days after the heat is over. Does this sound right? I think she would be coming in again on her own by then too. Am I right?

I am not breeding her this year, so short cycle or whatever is no big deal.

Thanks for your replies.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1917
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yup. By 14 days she should be coming back into estrus herself.
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 156
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I have a real feeling she caught. I have not seen a sign of her coming back in, though the other mare she pastured with did.

Today the vet is coming. I hate to give her that shot today because we are taking her on a camping/trailriding trip this weekend. Is it OK to wait a few more days until after the weekend before giving it? How long does it take to bring a mare in heat? I will ask all these questions to my vet too, don't worry.

Then there is this teeny, tiny part of me that doesn't want to abort it, especially if it's a filly. I so want a filly out of this mare. Most people associate inbreeding with all sorts of problems and defects, but I have been told that some of the best individuals in breeds can be produced through calculated matings like this. This one was not calculated, but both mare and colt are registered and quality individuals. Would this be taking too big of a chance?

Please don't be too harsh on me for feeling this way. Some folks just let the colts run with their mares and pay no attention at all and are surprised when in the next spring the mare presents with a foal.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1990
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Typically prostaglandin causes a mare to return to estrus 3-5 days after treatment. There will however be exceptions, and it could be sooner or later. Note that if you leave giving it too late in your situation, your mare may not come back into estrus, and the pregnancy will be maintained.

WRT to maintaining the pregnancy... Think long and hard. There are a lot of... well... just horses out there. I was down at the sales last night, and weanling registered with papers quarter horses are fetching $35, while yearlings are going for $100. You have a mare in foal to an unproven colt, and a potential foal that's inbred at that... It's your call... :-(
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 157
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Jos. I am still thinking. I know what you mean. I think I have the colt sold as a stud prospect and for a good price. So now I am toying with the idea of rebreeding the mare back to the same stud this year yet in hopes of getting a filly.

I didn't realize that there would be a point where the pregancy would be maintained even with the shot. Well, rather, I figured that would be much later that it wouldn't work. At what point is it too late generally? I can give it to her next week.

My vet thought that would be OK and in the mean time she may come back in herself.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1993
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Giving a single dose of prostaglandin beyond about 28 days is going to be less reliable. By 35 days it becomes decidedly unreliable. This is because some structures called endometrial cups form, and they secrete a hormone that causes the production of secondary CL's that in turn secrete increased levels of progesterone. Additionally, after the formation of the endometrial cups, even if you do achieve pregnancy reduction (which will typically require multiple shots of Prostaglandin F over several days at that stage), the mare is likely to not return to estrus for up to 150 days, which will prevent re-breeding in the same breeding season.
 

Molly M.
Breeding Stock
Username: Molly

Post Number: 158
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 05:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, so I definitely want to give it when I return from our camping trip and not wait around, if that's what I want to do.

Until we brought this other mare here, my mare only acted like she was in heat around horses on the trail. She did not show to her own colt. Bringing that other mare here is what stirred things up. Both were in heat and teased to each other. Since the colt could not get to the new mare, he went for what he could get, I believe, and this works for the mare too, since she seemed quite enamored of the new mare herself.

What I'm saying is, perhaps now that she is acquainted with the new mare and knows that the new mare is in fact not a stud, perhaps she won't show heat until we do get around some strange horses. So we'll find out.



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