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The right dose of estrumate

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Hormonal Manipulation » The right dose of estrumate « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Omar Sakr
Neonate
Username: Osakr

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is the correct dose for estrumate. I was told 1 ml but it doesn't seem to be effective.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1078
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please review the article titled "I Gave My Mare Prostaglandin, But It Didn't Work! (aka Why Prostaglandin Use May Not Result In Estrus In Mares)". It should help explain why the normal dose that you used didn't produce estrus.
 

Lyn Perkins
Neonate
Username: Nazeena1

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 07:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a question about Prostaglandin dosage. I have been breeding 20+ yrs, doing my own collection and AI for 4-5 yrs now.
My vet is very old fashioned. He is also very tight with any meds. He had previously given me bottles of Prostaglandin during breeding season and this year refused on the basis that he was seeing all kinds of bad side effects.
Of course, this is why I have been using the low dosage for years now. I tried to explain it to him, and he got EXTREMELY agitated. Wanted to know WHO what and where, so I referred him to the articles.
Well he called Pfizer and the Vet on staff had never heard of it, etc. Which got my Vet even madder at me and NOW he has refused to give me Prostaglandin any more, for abusing it.
Because there is no DVM behind this, it is a scam, whatever.
Now I understand why a drug company would not aknowledge this information, because it would not be profitable for them to suddenly sell 1/10 the amount !
But other than that,How can my use of a drug dosage thats 1/10th less, that probably hundreds have used by now( or thousands?), and it works, and the mares check in foal, be termed as ABUSE? and warrant my Vets anger at me? what can I do?
 

Lyn Perkins
Neonate
Username: Nazeena1

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 07:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

P.s. I have used this Vet exclusively for 10+ years now. He has been a Vet 40+ years and is getting up there in age.
We have 20+ broodmares(40 horses) and stand 5 stallions, so a fair sized operation.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2302
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 04:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately (or fortunately!), although equine reproduction is a very small part of a general vet practice, research is probably faster growing than in many of not most of the other areas. Consequently, many vets are not able or willing to keep on top of the latest research in the field. One of those areas is the use of the 1/10th "standard" dose of Prostaglandin F (it is so commonly used now, that it is actually something we use as a bit of a benchmark as whether the vet is on top of the latest research).

The drug company will not recommend the 1/10th does, as it has not been approved by the FDA - something that all drugs must go through before marketing. Hence, the dosage must be investigated by the drug company, and that testing for marketing purposes costs a lot of money. Testing for FDA approval is different from research work, and the results of research, although they can be cited in FDA testing need to be confirmed within that testing before approval for marketing (in this case, at the reduced dose). Drug companies therefore need to be able to recoup the cost of the testing through marketing in order to make it viable - something that obviously is not going to happen in this situation!

You will be pleased to hear that it is incorrect to say that the use of the 1/10th dosage was not researched/presented by a veterinarian! One of the research projects and papers was done/published by Dr. Gary Nie:

Nie GJ, Goodin AN, Braden TD, Wenzel JGW. How to reduce drug costs and side effects when using prostaglandins to short-cycle mares. Proc Am Assoc Eq Pract 2004;50:396-398.

The research was also published in a 2002 paper in the Theriogenology Journal if my memory serves me correctly.

Not only is Dr. Nie a veterinarian, but he also carries the following qualifications:

* Diplomate, American College of Theriogenologists
* Diplomate, American Board of Veterinary Practitioners , Equine Specialty
* Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Large Animal Specialty

Hopefully this will end the "discussion" with your veterinarian! :-)
 

Lyn Perkins
Neonate
Username: Nazeena1

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 08:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank You! I remember Dr Nie, I had been on his email list years back. I will certainly forward this info to my Vet. I also spoke to 2 more local Vets, (one a Theriogenologist), who both use some sort of low dosage protocol.
My Vets big 'problem' now it seems is that it isn't FDA approved, and he is on the board? VMA and sees all these lawsuits etc, so he is concerned with the liability issue.
For me, anytime we can acheive the same results with LESS, then that is a very good thing !



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